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coil over lift vs. coil lift

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by alexamado, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. Nov 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM
    #1
    alexamado

    alexamado [OP] TEXMEX TACO

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    I've been reading alot of threads here about which lift system is the best and would last the longest without much problems and i really respect alot of the answers that have been given. On the toytec site they have a coil over set(TTAFCS-6005) and they have a complete 3inch lift set for alot less. The question is, what makes the coil over set better then a tradional coil set?? I really don't plan on doing much off-roading except for the occasional weekend but i don't mind saving up some money if i'm going to get a much much better lift. thanks!!!!
     
  2. Nov 10, 2008 at 11:34 AM
    #2
    LonghornTaco

    LonghornTaco Can you pass the bailout please?

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    Well, the part number you referenced includes the Bilstein 5100 front shocks, adjustable coilovers and a machined top plate. Plus, it's all assembled, so you don't have to worry about taking the old coilovers off and get the springs compressed so you can reuse your stock strut and stock top plate.

    Regarding the "complete 3" lift set for a lot less", are you referring to a specific kit or in general? Because their complete kits have a number of varieties - rear spacers, rear AALs, etc... But these don't have the strut included and you reuse your stock top plate and strut. Plus, they are not adjustable (this may or may not be important to you).

    I am currently running essentially the same thing on the front as the TTAFCS-6005, but I bought all the parts separately. However, it was kinda a pain to mess with getting the springs compressed and getting them assembled, but I saved about $50 overall. If I had to do it again, I would probably buy the assembled ones.

    Oh, and a heads up - talk to Neubs (Nuebs?). He says he can get a discount for you from ToyTec. I found this out the week after I bought all my parts!

    Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions. There are a lot of knowledgable people on this thread. I know I learned a lot... :)
     
  3. Nov 10, 2008 at 11:55 AM
    #3
    alexamado

    alexamado [OP] TEXMEX TACO

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    Jason, thanks for the reply. Is the coilover really much better? Also, did u end up having to replace the UCA?
     
  4. Nov 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM
    #4
    dtrujillo63

    dtrujillo63 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to know as well. What makes a "coilover" better then say some OME NS140 shocks and 885 coils? Other then the fact that coilovers are adjustable. Wheres Chris when you need em? :p
     
  5. Nov 10, 2008 at 12:15 PM
    #5
    LonghornTaco

    LonghornTaco Can you pass the bailout please?

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    If I'm not mistaken, "coil" and "coilover" are the same thing. You are swapping the stock spring and it goes "over" the shock. The difference in the coilovers I got and the individual springs from the cheaper "complete" lift kits you were talking about is that mine is adjustable (I think this is what you were asking). And is it necessary? No, not really. But many of the better coilovers are adjustable. It's just a way for you to tune the lift to your needs/preference. (But don't go over 3"...)

    Regarding the UCAs, it's not necessary, but it helps to correct alignment issues you will probably have after lifting. It gives you a little more caster for adjustment. Some people say they don't replace them and they never had trouble, but many say that they just can't get the alignment quite right. I replaced mine with Total Chaos UCAs and I'm happy with them. Was able to tune the alignment just how I wanted (thanks to Chris4x4's recommendation!).
     
  6. Nov 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM
    #6
    LonghornTaco

    LonghornTaco Can you pass the bailout please?

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    I'm sure Chris is at work using his infinite knowledge on everything suspension related! :)

    Everything I know, I learned from Chris (and jhodge, tacomaman06, etc....)
     
  7. Nov 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM
    #7
    dtrujillo63

    dtrujillo63 Well-Known Member

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    A pair of Toytec coilovers will run about $800. A set of OME N140S shocks w/ 885 coils will run about $450. I find it hard to believe that the coilovers are almost twice the price just because they are adjustable. Coilovers have to be superior is more ways right?
     
  8. Nov 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM
    #8
    alexamado

    alexamado [OP] TEXMEX TACO

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    From what i've read and seen, the coilover lift has the coil and shock built together and the coil is just the spring using the stock shock or aftermarket. (5100's, OME-N140S, etc) I am no expert at all :D and may be wrong.
     
  9. Nov 10, 2008 at 12:46 PM
    #9
    TRD4x4858

    TRD4x4858 Taco Traitor!

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    spring rate and the ability to rebuild them
     
  10. Nov 10, 2008 at 12:52 PM
    #10
    LonghornTaco

    LonghornTaco Can you pass the bailout please?

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    That certainly makes sense...

    I don't have numbers on the OME stuff because I did the 5100s and the eibach springs from the adjustable coilover, but here's how the price broke down:

    5100s (front and rear): $270 (would have been about $170 just for front)
    Adjustable coilovers: $450
    Machined top plate: $150
    Getting them assembled: $40

    Total (with $170 for front 5100s): $810. To order the assembled coilovers with the struts from ToyTec is $799 (all the same parts that I bought separately).

    The top plate wasn't necessary, but I wanted a complete bolt on set so I could just take off the old and bolt on the new without having to take apart the old coilovers to assemble the new ones. I guess you could say that I paid for the convenience...

    So, if you use the stock top plate, you will be cheaper going with the OME coils and struts.

    Now, are the adjustable coilovers superior for any other reason than just being adjustable, that I don't know. But I got the prettier, machined top plate! :)
     
  11. Nov 10, 2008 at 3:51 PM
    #11
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    I was working, sorry guys! :D

    The differance between replacement coils and coilovers:
    Replacement coils are just the coil. Obviously. They can be had in spring rates from stock, on up to 700#.
    The OME Z140S shocks are not rebuildable, but they are solid and I have seen no reports of them breaking or leaking out.
    Most coilvers use 650# springs, are rebuildable and adjustable for height. They can also leak, and need to be recharged with nitrogen periodically. Being as most are made from aluminum, they can be suseptible to road salt damage. They get their lift by useing a stiffer spring and by preloading that spring with an adjustable collar.
    I have found that the only real differance between coil over manufactures, is that they all have what they think is the best valveing for the vehicle in which it will be used. Some use a speed sensative dampening, some use a Digressive rate, while most others use a progressive rate dampening. Bilstien uses a progressive rate. Sway-A-way, Fox, Icon, King all use a progressive rate dampening. Most coilovers use an 14" spring for the Tacoma. Leepers uses a 13" spring, and it has a 600# spring rate.

    I know Im leaveing alot out. Feel free to ask any questions I may not have answered. :)
     
  12. Nov 10, 2008 at 4:15 PM
    #12
    alexamado

    alexamado [OP] TEXMEX TACO

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    Chris,

    Thanks for your response. So, is it a toss up as far as which one will last the longest or be more reliable. Is the extra 400.00 just for the convenience of having the coil and shock manufactured together or is truly a better lift. Again the two systems i'm comparing are the ToyTec Coil Overs that sell for 799.99 and the Front OME 885 Coilsl along with the Front OME N140S Shocks.
    I don't mind spending more if its a better system i just have to save some more pennies.:D Do you think that the uca would need to be changed for alignment purposes. I really don't do any off-roading if that helps. thanks again.
     
  13. Nov 10, 2008 at 4:25 PM
    #13
    Budisweiser

    Budisweiser Member

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    All I can tell you is I went front the toytec spacer to the bilstein CO's (complete). Very noticable difference. I beleive the springs with the CO's have a higher rating and are also completely adjustable to 3.5". I have mine set at 2.5 with left a little higher to correct the lean (.25"). I beleive their rated to 600lbs. Unk what stock is. In my opion the spacers preload the stock coils too much causing a harsh ride. I could feel the road up into the steering wheel. They also will wear out your stock springs quicker and cause memory if you go back stock (my opinion). I learned the hard way trying to economy lift. GL
     
  14. Nov 10, 2008 at 4:34 PM
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    Budisweiser

    Budisweiser Member

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    Sorry I miss read you post's. You were compairing ome coils with CO's and not spacers.
     
  15. Nov 10, 2008 at 8:20 PM
    #15
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    Springs and shocks that are designed for the vehicle are always going to offer the best ride and performance. I think it comes down to personal preferance as to have a coilover set up, or a OME spring and shock. Im running the OME 885's and OME n140s shocks along with TC UCA's, and I am VERY pleased with their performance on and off road. My truck isnt nearly as stiff as my frinds who have coilovers, and I can take the big hits off road just as well. The OME N140S shocks are notrogen charged (just like coilover shocks), but dont have the ease of adjustability. That being said, If you went for the OME set up, you wouldnt be wanting more. And I do recomend replaceing the UCA's even if its only driven on the street as lifting causes the geometry of the suspension to lose 2* or so of caster. Total Chaos UCA's have more caster built into them, so after a lift, your alignment will be within specs. :)
     
  16. Nov 10, 2008 at 8:21 PM
    #16
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    Correct. Most spacer lifts offer to much preload on the stock spring (Spring rate of 540#), thus creating a harsh ride.
     
  17. Dec 12, 2008 at 1:02 PM
    #17
    basktaco

    basktaco Well-Known Member

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    hey chris if you get the 885s do you have to upgrade to the n140s shocks or can you keep the stock ones?
     
  18. Dec 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM
    #18
    dabighi

    dabighi Well-Known Member

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    you can use the stock ones but it is better to either use the ome or the billies
     
  19. Dec 12, 2008 at 1:18 PM
    #19
    basktaco

    basktaco Well-Known Member

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    thanks dabighi. i will probably end up getting the billies but i just wasnt sure
     
  20. Dec 12, 2008 at 1:42 PM
    #20
    LonghornTaco

    LonghornTaco Can you pass the bailout please?

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    Keep in mind that while the 5100s will work just fine with OME springs, the OME shocks will ride better since they are valved specifically for those springs.
     
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