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Coil over question

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by 06hawkman, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Aug 19, 2013 at 10:21 AM
    #1
    06hawkman

    06hawkman [OP] Active Member

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    OK bear with me I am a newbie when it comes to trucks, but have been working on cars forever. My question stems from the work I have done on cars installing aftermarket coil overs. On cars the threaded portion of the shock body actually raises and lowers in the lower shock mount to achieve a desired ride height independent of spring preload, now this is a good thing because you can raise or lower your vehicle without getting a softer or more harsh ride, however I have noticed that all aftermarket coil overs for the Tacoma do not have this option. Is there a reason for this as I would like to raise my truck but do not want a super stiff ride. I will attach a picture to show what I am talking about and if any body knows of a company who makes a coil over like this for our truck please let me know, or if any body knows why they are not designed like this I would appreciate it. I would like to raise the truck 3" but do not want the harshness associated with that high of a lift. Your help is appreciated. Here is the coil over for reference

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Aug 19, 2013 at 10:23 AM
    #2
    CanisLupus

    CanisLupus Previously "MGMTacoFF"

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    There are definitely adjustable coilovers for our trucks. Toytec (+/- $800), Icon (+/- $1100), King (+/- $1100), Fox (+/- $1100), etc make them. Some people opt for coilovers like OME, where you can choose from different springs to get the spring rate/height you desire.

    Here is just one example. (Icon Coilovers) The ring at the top of the coil can be adjusted using a supplied spanner wrench to get the height you want.

    [​IMG]

    Matt
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  3. Aug 19, 2013 at 10:23 AM
    #3
    Large

    Large Red

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    There are options that offer what you are looking for but they are expensive. King, Icon and Fox all make adjustable coil overs.
     
  4. Aug 19, 2013 at 10:25 AM
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    06hawkman

    06hawkman [OP] Active Member

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    I have been looking at King, Icon and Fox but all require you to preload the spring to achieve more lift. I have not seen any that you can independently adjust ride height and spring preload. I am looking for a shock like the photo I posted where the shock threads into the lower mount. If any body has a link that would be great.
     
  5. Aug 19, 2013 at 11:12 AM
    #5
    06hawkman

    06hawkman [OP] Active Member

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    Or does a coil over like this not exist? If not maybe I can try to talk Icon into starting a new line lol
     
  6. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:29 PM
    #6
    neonlazer

    neonlazer Mechanically Goofy

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    Without preloading the spring..what other way is there to adjust the height? Only option other than spring preload is struts without springs that you adjust with gas pressure.

    The shocks you posted work on spring preload as well..just upside down from what we normally see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  7. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:39 PM
    #7
    06hawkman

    06hawkman [OP] Active Member

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    No the coil overs I posted raise and lower with the shock body threading into the lower mount. You do not need to adjust preload to adjust height on this style coil over. Here is another photo that shows what I am trying to say. It just seems to logical to do it this way so I don't understand why the aftermarket companies cant make it like this instead.

    [​IMG]

    So you loosen the bottom lock ring and spin the cartridge down into the mount body.
     
  8. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:43 PM
    #8
    YOTA LOVER

    YOTA LOVER Stay Calm, and Fire For Effect

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  9. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:45 PM
    #9
    chadderkdawg

    chadderkdawg Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to..

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    To be fair OP, when you increase the length of the shock body, aren't you just essentially preloading the entire strut?
     
  10. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:47 PM
    #10
    06hawkman

    06hawkman [OP] Active Member

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    Those are not ride height or preload adjustable at all. That is exactly the opposite of what I am looking for. The length of the shock body does not increase, it merely raises or lowers in the lower mount
     
  11. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:51 PM
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    YOTA LOVER

    YOTA LOVER Stay Calm, and Fire For Effect

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    No. It's simply a way to mechanically lengthen the "shock" part of the strut without influencing the coil in anyway. It won't make the strut "see" any more strain than it does normally. It's actually kind of genius if I didn't think they would explode/shatter under hard abuse on the trail.
     
  12. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:55 PM
    #12
    DESRTRNNR

    DESRTRNNR Well-Known Member

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    i doubt any manufacturer would make anything like that for a truck.. I doubt it would be strong enough.. all it takes is for one idiot to try and jump or to come off a drop off too hard and it would probably buckle the bottom mount.

    if you wanted something like that you could probably adjust the shocks for 0 lift, and then get different size spacers for the top of the shock that you could swap out..
     
  13. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:57 PM
    #13
    mgrande

    mgrande iKill

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    I know what you're talking about and no they dont make them for our trucks. Closest thing I guess would be a top plate spacer but since these are trucks and they see a full range of motion the ball joints get beat up. On cars it works because theyre not flexing and jumping ect
     
  14. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:59 PM
    #14
    YOTA LOVER

    YOTA LOVER Stay Calm, and Fire For Effect

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    I think the consensus will be that this design will not hold up to the abuse. If it was a feasible design the aftermarket would surely embrace it.

    Also who in the hell wants to keep adjusting their suspension every week? :notsure:
     
  15. Aug 19, 2013 at 12:59 PM
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    chadderkdawg

    chadderkdawg Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to..

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    I tend to disagree, I see that as lengthening the strut, thus putting more tension on the entire assembly while mounted. Kinda the same as a top plate spacer. I prefer my preloaded coil-overs as I have had both.
     
  16. Aug 19, 2013 at 1:01 PM
    #16
    06hawkman

    06hawkman [OP] Active Member

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    I do not want to adjust it often but I would like to adjust ride height separate of spring tension to achieve the best of both worlds. I am not sure why the design would be weak, it looks roughly the same to me. Rally cars use this design and jump non stop with zero suspension breakage issues

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  17. Aug 19, 2013 at 1:11 PM
    #17
    JLee

    JLee The Man! Vendor

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    I lost track thousands of dollars ago.
    Because if you did that you would bottom out the shock before the bump stops if they were that way or nee longer bumps. The Aftermarket caters to the off road market and we don't want to loose up travel to have a softer ride. I see how it works on cars but trucks it would be like putting an adjustable spacer on top of a coil over and no one would really run that off road.
     
  18. Aug 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM
    #18
    neonlazer

    neonlazer Mechanically Goofy

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    The springs are so small..it works on a rally car but a truck is bigger and heavier..you will need a bigger spring to support it all..the spring on the icon is almost the length of the whole shock..while the other has a spring way shorter..

    Lee maybe introduce him to ORI struts..maybe he will like them. :p
     
  19. Aug 19, 2013 at 1:15 PM
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    YOTA LOVER

    YOTA LOVER Stay Calm, and Fire For Effect

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    OK, lets think about this. If you put in a 1/2" top plate spacer you gain 1" of lift, and retain the travel and stock compression characteristics of the oem strut. All you have done is displaced the strut down by 1/2". You have not added any stresses to the system. Of course, you should get a lengthened bump stop to compensate for the displacement.

    If you preload a coil you change the characteristics of the coil, and because it is already compressed while "at rest" it takes even more force to compress it under normal driving conditions. This method should also include an extended bump stop. Most people think this leads to a harsher ride. Having run them I agree. The genius of the struts that the OP first showed us is that they negate any preloading of the coils while allowing the vehicle to be lifted or lowered.
     
  20. Aug 19, 2013 at 1:16 PM
    #20
    offroadwonder

    offroadwonder Well-Known Member

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    What you're suggesting is roughly equivalent of lifting via a top-plate spacer. Most people agree that spacers cause problems with our trucks' suspension for various reasons (primarily shock crash due to the bump stops no longer being effective).

    There is also a fundamental misunderstanding here of what "pre-loading" actually does. On an adjustable coil-over like the Icons, Kings, etc., turning the adjustment ring for a higher suspension position only changes the spring's pre-load when the assembly is removed from the vehicle or the truck is completely off the ground. Anywhere within the suspension's normal range of motion the spring rate and force exerted by the spring is exactly the same.

    The SAE unit for spring force is lb-f/in (pounds-force per inch). The truck weighs exactly the same regardless how the suspension is set up so the force exerted by the springs does not change whether it is lifted .5" or 3". Any harshness felt after additional lift is the result of other problems in the suspension such as the reduced length between resting and fully extended or limitations due to upper control arms or something of the sort.
     
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