Colorado B.S. Thread

Saw someone at the Flatirons AMC 14 last night. Didn't get a picture. Good looking truck though!!

 

Have fun at RT everyone! Was hoping to run out there to hang out but didn't get enough things in line to do so.

 

I need to run eagle rock after I get back from RT and also when it dries up.

 

RT fell on a motorcycle ride weekend last year, and again this year. Maybe I'll make it out next year.

 

I ordered my tipi late, was gonna come out and show it off , if it comes this week I may still come down later in the week. We will see.

 

Hopefully you're all good and the bike is good as well. Think I may have locked in a toy hauler. Will be deciding this week. It the impact 301 by fusion.

 

I had rum in my glass

 

Haha no I mean it fell on the same weekend. The bike didn't fall on me yet, though it probably will this weekend.

 

I read that way wrong. Was like dang hope you're ok. Falling in moab would hurt!!!

 

yeah it was 60. but the convenience of everything put together was worth it IMO..a fun little mod.. Im doing bed lights soon too another fun little mod

 

Here's a few reasons off the top of my head:

1) You are personally responsible for EVERY projectile you fire from a firearm. You better be VERY familiar with your shotgun's pattern at various distances in various circumstances. This takes more training that most are willing to put in.
2) The recoil. This alone should be the largest deterrent for MOST home owners. The idea that you hand granny a 12ga with buck or magnums and tell her to just point in the area of BG and pull the trigger is laughable at best which brings me to my next point...
3) Shot spread. It amazes me how many people still parrot that with a shotgun you just point in the area of a BG and pull the trigger and said BG will die instantly and the threat will end. The reality is that a typical 12ga with standard buck shot (what I recommend for SD engagements up to about 20-25yds depending on your shotguns spread before switching to slugs for longer range engagements) will hold a group of a couple of inches to most home defense situations. This idea that you don't need to aim is foolish yet I still hear stupid shit like that today. Read #1 again.
4) Controllability. Of all the possible choices or at least the more popular options out there a shotgun not only has far and away the most recoil (which makes follow up shots more difficult especially for the smaller/weaker among us) but it's also harder to transition to target to target or for room clearing (think short quick transitions and aiming) but is most likely to be rendered inoperable from the inexperienced user (short stroking for instance).
5) Length and weight. Sure as a 280lb fella I can say that I can run one like it's made of cardboard but no way in hell would I suggest a 115lb man/woman attempt to run it the same way. The macho attitude in firearms is it's own biggest determent as many are put off by the 'Sack up and do it or you're not a man' attitude that runs rampant.
6) Penetration. Oh sweet buttered Christ do these things absolutely DESTROY dry-wall. We actually tested this with various firearms shooting various firearms and a shotgun using standard buck shot was easily the most destructive to half a dozen sheets of drywall plus. This idea that you can freely shoot inside of your home with a shotgun is incredibly dangerous. See #1.
7) Intuitive use. Other than racking a slide on a pump & the trigger none of the controls or manual of arms for failures are intuitive. It takes lots of practice to run one properly and too many people think you just keep it by your bedside and then rack the slide when something goes bump in the night and your family is instantly safe. Which brings me to...
8) Racking the slide on your shotgun and giving away your position is the least tactical thing you can do in a home invasion scenario. Personally, I will take the advantage of knowing my home to the square inch and everything about it as well as exactly where the BG(s) is based on sound and distance to my advantage. The last thing I want to do is let him know precisely where I am when he's in a strange environment and is clueless as to where the threat is coming from. I'll keep it that way, get the drop and stack the deck in my favor. If you're not using advantages such as this in your favor you're letting the odds swing away from the favor of you and your loved ones. The best ambush is the one your enemy knows nothing about.

All that being said a shotgun is an amazing tool and it has it's place. In the right hands in the right situation it's a devastating weapon and has it merits for sure. My post isn't to say they're junk because they're not. I love my shotguns (yes, I have several of those turds) but I just disagree that it's the go-to first time gun owner HD worry-free weapon of choice. Don't take my word for it. Take a look at agencies all over the country who, after decades of use, are transitioning to 5.56 (usually AR15's) for entry weapons. The 5.56 round is easier to control and the second it hits dry wall will start to tumble causing a larger loss of energy in even the first sheet of drywall. Like anything, it's important to know your target as well as it's foreground and background but it is a little bit more forgiving than buck shot or slugs (anyone who recommends using bird shot for self defense against human beings should immediately be ignored on all things firearms) plus the recoil is nearly non-existent depending on your setup.

Another option is the handgun. I want to address the largest negative to this option up front to clear up any confusion: it will penetrate walls. The pros though far outweigh this con IMO. It's small, easy to conceal, easy to control, functions are intuitive, recoil for follow up shots is very low (again, depending on setup) it can hold high amounts of ammunition in a small foot print and at the expensive of little weight. It's inexpensive to train with and is a joy to run therefore making you more likely to train with it. Ever run 1000rds through a handgun and then 1000rds through a shotgun... in the same day? I have. One is way more fun than the other. I shoot frequently for fun and I rarely reach for a shotgun when I do. I trained with shotguns to be better at competing and just to know the manual of arms but if it wasn't for the need to improve for competitive shooting I'm not sure how much practice time I would have invested. They're a kick in the pants alright. The first few shells. After a while that wears off and you're left with a brutal assault on your shoulder, hands & wrists. It's not likely that you're going to regularly go run hundreds of shells through it just for funsies. With a handgun most of your training will transition from your bedside piece to your carry weapon.

Personally, I keep a Glock 17 by my bedside. I've run literally tens of thousands of rounds through it and trust my life to it's reliability w/o even doubting the decision. It's got an Arrendondo base which adds another 5rds at a VERY little hit in size/weight. That's 23rds on the weapon before I even need to reload. The bonus is that these bases are allowed in competitive shooting so I'm used to the feel and the round count. I can take care of most things that go bump in the night with 23rds of Hornady Critical Duty. It's right next to me when I sleep and is SUPER easy to keep close and poke around corners as I clear the house. Most home invasion scenarios are 1, 2 or 3 tards so I'm confident with my quickness and transitions with this firearm to handle probably 99% of situations that are likely to occur in my home. If I am greeted with that 1% situation I will use my handgun to fight my way to my safe where I will have an AR15 setup for HD waiting for action. That's my choice but not perfect for everyone. Any choice you make will have cons so you have to weigh them against the pros and then train train train with whatever method you choose. Personally, the more shotguns I shoot the less I think they're optimal choices for HD though.

I'm just some schmuck so take everything I say with a grain of salt. Do your own research and determine what's best for you just make sure you are vetting your sources of information as you will get a LOT of internet commandos parroting some bullshit they heard a few times as fact. This kind of 'knowledge' can be very dangerous when you actually apply it to RL situations.

 

Yeah, I was helping to hold the cagers for you lunatic bikers. ;-)

 

BTW, sorry for being a relative no-show to this thread the last month or so. I've had some personal things going on but the largest reason is the new format just isn't working for me. I was told that the instant notification for thread activity would be returned but in the meantime this daily digest just doesn't work for me. I get an email the next night that there's traffic in a thread I'm subscribed to and then I don't have time until the next day to sift through the pages of new posts in this thread. It's just easy to not participate. So if I'm not here much that's why, not because I don't like you folks anymore. The new format just doesn't work for me. Nothing personal.

 

You guys were very much appreciated.

 

http://www.serbu.com/legacy/shorty.htmhtm
Just gonna leave this here after that long rant! Hahaha just better be a good shot you only got 3 or 4 rounds

 

Tl Dr. Way tl for your audience lol

 

I was there. But my truck wasn't.

Awesome post, eh?

 

There seems to be a plethora of folks with great gun knowledge here, amongst many other things.

Just because it's a truck forum doesn't mean the posters are limited to just truck knowledge. Hell there are plenty of LEOs here, Lauren works at a gun shop/range, there are serious enthusiasts, etc.

 

But Joe Biden said to get a shotgun... I'm so confused now...