Concealed Carry on Campus?

I see where your coming from wanting to carry. I have a long walk to my truck at night after night classes. I like the idea of having my smith .357 on my hip in case i need it. However, theres to many kids to abuse the privledge. I can see it already. college kid,alcohol, carrying gun, accident. I know that can happen anywhere, anytime, but allowing carrying would increase the chance. Basically I'm sayin i would love to be able to, but theres a few people that would abuse their right.

 

This came up at our school. I was fortunate enough to live off campus and kept plenty of hunting and target firearms. However, I was 21 for 2 years while at college and could have had my CWP but just got it in December. We were not allowed to carry, in rural PA, but we could register hunting and target firearms with campus police for them to hold and for us to check out. This seemed somewhat fair for campus-bound sportsmen but hardly effective for those old, wise, and qualified enough to carry concealed. I was an engineer and most of us were hunters and responsible enough. We all had knives and multi-tools on us at all times. Of course those in the "humanities" and "general education" buildings fought against a student's right to carry. I understand the point someone made about break ins and drunken mistakes, but I believe those who chose to apply and carry concealed are held to higher responsibility. I am choosing my first concealed firearm and am faced with a lot of choices and responsibilities. Firearms training should be a bigger part in the application in out state in my state. Because as much as I would like to think that I could have been the hero at VT, I don't know if I oculd have acted fast enough and under duress to save lives. I think fast on my feet and am a good shot, but am by no means qualified in a military or law enforcement setting like that. But I would feel a lot safer with a firearm.

As for teachers carrying, most college level professors are anti-gun and would not carry nor have the first clue what to do with one anyway. But that's my experience. Our engineering profs pretty much had military backgrounds and were sportsmen to boot. I wouldn't mind them carrying at all. Now out campus police were really what scared me...

 

I know some of you guys are going to bite my head off, but how about more gun control and beefed up security. I think its crazy you want to walk around at school with a gun "in case" something happens. I know crime is worse for you guys and there are a lot of people with dangerous weapons but there has to be another way other than carrying a gun around.

 

Alright so I'm digging up an old post (you can blame the "similar threads" section at the bottom), but I noticed that there's a big gap left out here.

In Oregon, state law dictates that you can observe concealed carry rights on public grounds and property, except as specifically stated otherwise. One of the allowed carry places is public-owned universities and colleges.

Oregon State University doesn't like this AT ALL, and specifies in their laws that weapons are forbidden, other than the ones approved by, transported to, and used at the rifle club building (if that still exists). They claim that this nullifies concealed carry on campus, and they post stickers on buildings to say weapons are prohibited.

However, state law trumps them. It's been proven many times over. If you were to get ejected from campus for concealed carry, you can literally sue the campus and win.

In response to the college, my brother participated in an organized protest. Members of the protest came to school with an empty holster displayed on the outside of their clothes.

I never heard how effective it was, but OSU's still holding by their policy.


My suggestion to all is that you check your state laws for concealed carry, rather than trust the college. Read it CAREFULLY, as sometimes it can be confusing.

I generally live with a happy mindset of being safe, secure, and not needing to survive a Die-Hard movie. I carry much like I'd carry an umbrella - if I'm expecting rain, I better bring safety. I should probably carry more, as I've had incidents where the restaurant I ate at one week had a suicide gunner the next week!
However, I also know that police can't be everywhere, and there's no realistic funding to police everything. I also believe you need to be responsible for yourself to a certain degree, and a criminal is less likely to act in an area that isn't in his advantage. Oregon state has emergency 911 stations where you can hit a button... and wait. There's also rural areas of the campus and late nights, and it's common to know of at least one brutal rape story.

Be responsible, but don't be a nut about it.

 

The only persons in this State who can carry in any School also has to have a Badge.
I have a CWP and would never think of going in any public place with it. There is too much at risk and I am not a law man. I'm sorry that I do not agree with some of you however I have too much to lose to take that kind of a chance. I'm 63 and have hunted and owned guns all my life. I've never been threatened by any one in any way I am 6'1" and 265 LBS. so I just don't find many problems out there. I carry mine in the rig or when ATVing or Camping. I've had more trouble with 4 legged offenders than two legged.
That's my .02 cents

 

I support concealed carry on campus, because 'when seconds matter, the police are minutes away.'

 

Actually, Montana is listed as a "Right to carry" state, meaning that the state leaves the decision of concealed carry on college campuses entirely to each college/university.

In regard to the rest of your comment, it's about being responsible and knowing your rights, not about taking chances with the law. If there's a law in contest, I'd rather be in the grey area that GIVES me a chance, along with the other people I care about.

As a male who's lived in smaller cities, I've seldom been threatened, but I haven't been immune. I've been physically threatened in church, my brother has had knives waved at him while going to a movie, there's been a shooting outside my house, I've had a group of people enter my house, had a drunk try to assault me on a fishing trip, and I've had my share of thieves. I've never had to pull, but on the occasions where I remember to carry, I've had options.

At 63, and even at my 30, we aren't spring chickens (damn where did this belly come from?). I doubt either of us have the skills to smack down 5 guys at once. However, I can squeeze off enough shots to really change some opinions when a situation may call for it.

 

I was a junior at Virginia Tech when 4/16 happened. VT is IMO one of the safest campuses in the US. I gotta tell ya DanGer, it wouldnt make me safer knowing every stressed out college kid had a gun, even if I had one. Were you on campus when it happened DanGer? (Not trying to call you out just curious, becuase this could happen anywhere not just VT)

 

I think I'm one of the most pro-cw people in the country, but the question at hand has me in a quandry. While I understand that incidents like Columbine and VT would most likely have been resolved sooner if more people had had guns, the chances for irresponsible behavior in a college setting are very high. In fact, some of the responses on gun threads in this forum, have me a bit concerned - college age or not.

The responsibility of concealed carry is a prickly problem, as taught in detail in most classes. The holder will be subject to massive scrutiny in an incident, and held accountable for the slightest lapse of judgement. The maxim is that the holder will pay approximately $10,000 in legal fees for firing his weapon regardless of the strength of his case. This is assuming he was in the right, and wins his case. In the last class I took, the instructor made the point that a CWP holder is required to be an absolute pussy in any confrontational situation... run away, cower, capitulate, whatever... but only pull your weapon at the last possible second. Right or wrong, what sticks with me is the monetary damages.

In the end I guess I'd require counselor and Dean's approval for any student to be allowed to carry. I'd think they'd be the ones most likely to know best, assuming they're not rabid anti-gun people. The above mentioned recent events might open their perspectives somewhat.

 

Mike what you say I can agree with to a point. When I had my Brain Surgery in Portland we stayed in Beaverton It seemed like a really nice place. Those things that you've had happen I've never seen. That would be the difference in our opion.

 

I agree with what some others are saying. To much drug use, boozing, fights and hard feelings on college campuses to make me feel like carrying a firearm conceal and carry or in a dorm setting is a good idea.
Yes some people are responsible, and would take conceal and carry and firearm safety to heart. There are a lot more who can't handle the responsibility.

 

Heh most of those happened in Salem, Corvallis, and Klamath Falls... but I try keeping out of east Portland!!

I went through HWY 90 on vacation - if you live in anywhere like that area, then yes, using a CCW wouldn't pass my mind.

Eehhh, I'm hopefully going to be very careful how I talk about this one.

I believe that CC laws are incredibly convoluted as-is, and would rather have one resource, one document that listed things in a clear manner.
On top of this, I prefer laws that can be voted on by the people rather than dictated by a single entity.
What I interpreted by "requiring couselor's/dean's approval" is that you are in favor of a psychological evaluation. Unfortunately, this would get into a grey area and would be hard to manage. One dean evaluating 30k students? Even with counselors it would take a significant amount of time. As to the grey area, I'm saying that you would be privileged/denied based on intangibles and feelings. I'd rather have it be more measurable:

I tried applying for Lockheed-Martin at one point. Their application packet was... 12 pages? I listed everywhere I lived for the past 5 years, stated any traffic violation, criminal offense (even if pardoned), all medication I was using or had used, major surgeries, any travel out of state... and this was on top of the standard background check. A speeding ticket may have compromised my eligibility because it showed I could not be trusted to obey the law.

I'm not saying you need that much of a test, but it's measurable data that you could profile and score someone with.

 

I would disagree with CW on campus. I wouldn't feel safe knowing some guy that sat in front of me has a firearm. You may never know, he might one day go balistic and start shooting people in the class and take himself out after. The only people i can trust holding a CW is a cop. Just bump security on campus, i'd feel a lot safer knowing a cop had a CW vs a dumbass that doesn't know how to shoot a firearm for shit. That's just my opinion...

 

How do you know the guy in back of you isn't carrying, has a very sound mental disposition, and happens to be your hope in suppressing a situation?
How do you know the guy in front of you actually obtained his weapon legally or has a CCW?

I'd rather have a student in his master's degree for criminal justice be carrying on campus rather than a high-school dropout cop with a chip on his shoulder and a poster of Dirty Harry. I've probably had more time behind a gun than most campus police.
I really hate badmouthing police, as I have nothing but praise for the officers in my area and I grew up with a neighbor on the force, but they will be the first to tell you there's good cops and some really, REALLY stupid guys who somehow got a badge pinned to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

 

I still wont trust a college student with a firearm in a school, not matter what state of mind he is in.
Obviously you will know when the guy actually pulls out the firearm and uses it.
Im all for CW, just not in a school setting.

 

I could not agree more. I am a gun owner myself but i just feel that consealed carry on campus is a bad idea.

 

I understand your concern about the dean's/counselor's approval. The only saving grace would be the small number of students applying (I assume... and just as likely female as male). It's a tough question with no real good answers. The 21 year old limit does tend to weed out some of the wacky underclassmen.

BTW, I lived in Gresham for 8 years when I wasn't travelling, and commuted to Corvallis for 4 of those years. I had a CCW permit in Oregon in '94. I'm not sure I'd tour East Portland unless I was driving a Stryker.

 

For those are using the argument that a student will somehow lose control and start shooting everyone does not make sense to me. This is the type of argument that antigunners make everyday. There is no difference between sitting in class behind a guy that has his license and is legally carrying and a guy at a movie theater that is doing the same. The argument that people will lose control and there will be blood in the streets has not happened, and it would not happen on campuses either. The location of the person carrying should have no bearing on whether it should be allowed or not. IMO, if you are pro-carry, then you cannot be against carrying on a campus. If you are anti-ccw, that is fine. Your choice. And if there are truly stressed out, drunk drug heads running wild on campus, then I definitely need my ccw to be safe.

 

There is minimal concern about firearms on campuses. Per my research, a negligible number of students over 21 and capable of attaining a firearm would live in dorms. Therefore, many security concerns about securing a firearm are null and void.

Concealed pistol licensee's on a college campus would have no affect in reality. If you are concerned about CPL holders, you must have also been concerned about CPL holders acting violent over everyday events. For example, getting in a parking dispute, or a sour deal at a dealership, or any other negative event.