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Cop shoots off duty firefighter

Discussion in 'Law Enforcement Officers' started by Forster46, Feb 25, 2014.

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  1. Feb 26, 2014 at 12:31 AM
    #21
    mipawlus

    mipawlus Broja OG and CEO

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    true story! i once broke an off duty cop's arm (same night i got put in the drunk tank) who grabbed me without identifying himself. upon snappage, he identified himself and i complied (i also apologized, but i don't know if he accepted), was escorted out of the concert, and chauffeured to the local jail. i was a licensed security guard in san diego and people took us as seriously as they took speed limit signs or warnings about smoking pot and it's effect on your health.

    its amazing how quickly the charges escalate after they say "i'm officer ____________ with __________ sheriff/police dept."
     
  2. Feb 26, 2014 at 12:35 AM
    #22
    badphish14

    badphish14 Well-Known Member

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    He's working security for the hotel. I highly doubt he's wearing his police uniform at the hotel. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing, wasn't there. Terrible for both.
     
  3. Feb 26, 2014 at 12:39 AM
    #23
    mipawlus

    mipawlus Broja OG and CEO

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    i'm speaking as a combat vet. i've been shot at in 4 countries (including the US) and drawn my pistol twice in the states, once as recently as 2 nights ago, but learning the difference between "shit this really hurts" and "i am in legitimate fear for my life" are two different things. those memories turn into ghosts and ghosts haunt you for a lifetime.

    i'm also not saying i stand by what the cop did, nor am i siding with the ff. no one here was in the position to make the call they were, but from what we CAN see (not based on what a nurse - far from a life taker - says), chances are, the cop skipped a few steps. pain compliance doesn't work? try mace/pepper spray. as drunk as i've been, pepper spray WORKS. fucker's still coming like a bat out of hell? (keeping in mind the edited video) try presenting a firearm first. the business end of a pistol speak volumes. dumbass charges you when you have a drawn pistol. by all means. you raised, he called.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  4. Feb 26, 2014 at 12:50 AM
    #24
    Jareds Toyota

    Jareds Toyota Well-Known Member

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    I think he was a little close for pepper spray, and would risk spraying himself? At first the ff looks as if he isn't resisting arrest, so there wouldn't be a point to the officer drawing his pistol. And the officer did need facial reconstruction, I'm sure those punches caused more damage than you'd think. Definitely not a good outcome for both sides, but I don't think the officer was in the wrong.
     
  5. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:06 AM
    #25
    mipawlus

    mipawlus Broja OG and CEO

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    the joys of opinions and being an objective third party.

    honestly, if some random dude was whooping my non-LEO ass outside of a bar and i KNEW there was no way out (and if i had my chl/ccw), by all means, i would follow the steps i talked about earlier (escalation of force is kinda engraved in most marines head). since i'm not and the state of texas says carrying wile intoxicated is a felony, i'd probably get my ass whooped. but i'm also tired of seeing death (particularly american/american and all because one was drunk).

    cops, at least in texas, have to get certified to carry pepper spray - part of that.... getting pepper sprayed to know how to react to it. my dumbass volunteered to try it when my brother (LEO) was getting his cert. my dumbass has volunteered (in a round about way) to do it when drunk. it works, and it hurts, and it SUCKS, but god damn if you don't stop fighting and everyone in a giant radius become reverts to insta-bitch mode (minus those on the more hardcore drugs).

    and yes, when you hold someone's head down and waylay them (ground and pound), it causes a shitload of damage, particularly to the ocular bones and nose. anyone that follows MMA/UFC will attest to that.

    the only person who can really truly judge the officer is his own self. sure, he will be judged before the court and a judge and jury will find him guilty or not. he will be judged by every person who watches that video. the only other person who knew what was going on in that is now relegated to the past tense.

    as my pops says, hindsight is always 20/20. we can just hope that this is all brought to an as-peaceful-as-possible ending as quickly as possible. the departed deserves his due respect and the leo deserves his.
     
  6. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:07 AM
    #26
    The6pharaohs

    The6pharaohs WTF just happened?

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  7. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:09 AM
    #27
    CLynch

    CLynch Well-Known Member

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    Watch the second video. The nurse heard in the background testified to the effect he had no other choice. To the guy that said take a beating and then put out an apb... Are you kidding me? Leo's don't can not take losses or even draws. Let's say he took that beating, the guy took his gun and brained him. The statistics show, if the bad guy gets your gun, you have a 10 percent chance of living. When your daily dress for 25 years includes bullet resistant armor, then you arm chair quarterback. If you were that cab driver getting your ass kicked prior, I am sure you would want someone to step in, most departments require an action be taken. Watch the other video with the newscaster, then come back. If you are still hating , it's cause you are a cop hater, and no debate will change your mind.
     
  8. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:10 AM
    #28
    CLynch

    CLynch Well-Known Member

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    PS he was cleared at Grand jury
     
  9. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:17 AM
    #29
    mipawlus

    mipawlus Broja OG and CEO

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    dog, it's called a holster hood. only the wearer can open it. therefore, ONLY THE WEARER can decide the outcome.. where are these statistics? who reported that? FOX news? stfu. have you been in a life or death situation that you survived miraculously? have you been in either of those people's shoes? have you been in a situation where you spent time on end in 60lbs of combat gear regardless of what youre doing - eating, sleeping, taking a shit? i have. i've had bullets zing past me and shrapnel hit me. i've watch armored truck fly 15 feet in the air in front of my truck because of a double stacked IED. my brother, step brother, and sister in law, along with a larger number of my friends are LEO. i'm aiming to go into the fire academy here in spring, which i chose over the police academy. i challenge you to call me a cop hater.

    and since when is a nurse considered an expert in ground fighting?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  10. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:18 AM
    #30
    mipawlus

    mipawlus Broja OG and CEO

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    then more power to him, i'm just trying to say that we weren't there and from MY KNOWLEDGE of leo sop, deadly force is not the first option.
     
  11. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:29 AM
    #31
    mipawlus

    mipawlus Broja OG and CEO

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    if ifs and buts were candy and nuts... did he? no. that's adding extrapolating circumstances. i'm basing my thoughts and comments on THIS (probably edited) video. if you present facts and a logical statement, then we can talk logically, vice the "you've never worn body armor, you cop hater" statements.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  12. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:36 AM
    #32
    Domc20

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    Its very unfortunate that this happened but I agree if he would have knocked him out then took his gun and killed him, everyone would be saying why didn't the officer shoot him.
     
  13. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:39 AM
    #33
    MightyMouse-SCT

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    Resisting and swinging on a cop you'll probably get hit with his strongest weapon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  14. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:43 AM
    #34
    Mr. Brown

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    A common mistake is that cops have extensive training in hand-to-hand fighting techniques. The truth is that they receive a very minimum level of defensive tactics training.

    Most departments policy is that pepper spray cannot be used within five feet of a subject due to the risk of the hydraulic needle effect. The pressure of the spray can actually puncture the eye ball and cause serious injury, which is the equivalent of deadly force.


    As someone that has trained ground tactics while armed; I assure you it is fairly easy to remove a gun from a retention holster with a thumb break.

    There is not, nor has there ever been, a requirement to go through the "levels" of force before one can get to deadly force. If there is a threat of death or serious injury, deadly force can be used.
     
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  15. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:47 AM
    #35
    mipawlus

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    average civilian though? let alone a CLEARLY drunk individual.... youtube is a wonderful source of information, but it's not going to provide the techniques or finesse.
     
  16. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:50 AM
    #36
    Mr. Brown

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    Anyone with basic holster knowledge could figure it out.
     
  17. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:51 AM
    #37
    mipawlus

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    depending on your situation. in my experience in combat, yes. once the serious threat comes about, yes. getting your ass whooped on a city sidewalk IN MY OPINION... hardly grounds. but that's just me.

    what is his precinct/district/office/bureau's policy on intervening in a crime while off duty? once again, in texas, most - if not all - leo agencies TO MY KNOWLEDGE require them to step in. in the videos provided, did he let it be known that he's a cop? i didn't hear it.
     
  18. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:52 AM
    #38
    mipawlus

    mipawlus Broja OG and CEO

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    you give the average drunk civilian a lot of credit.
     
  19. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:53 AM
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    Jareds Toyota

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    LEOs are killed often in gun grab incidents.. Don't think its about technique or finesse. I can't tell if you are playing devils advocate or if you actually believe what you are saying
     
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  20. Feb 26, 2014 at 1:55 AM
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    Mr. Brown

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    A drunk guy only has to be lucky once. A cop has to be lucky every day of his life.
     
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