Deadman Offroad Kickstarter Now Live!

EDDO · May 16, 2017

DeadmanOffroad · May 16, 2017

Well, 39.4171428571429% to be exact. But I guess we're just being eager.

EDDO · May 16, 2017

DeadmanOffroad said: ↑

Well, 39.4171428571429% to be exact. But I guess we're just being eager.
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Thread needed a bump...

DeadmanOffroad · May 16, 2017

EDDO said: ↑

Thread needed a bump...
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You rock, sir!

SixthSnail · May 16, 2017

DeadmanOffroad said: ↑

Hello everyone! First post here... Thanks @Pirhett for the OP and thanks to all of the TW members who have supported us! You all are awesome!

My name is Daniel; I wanted to say thanks and try answering some of the questions that were raised in this thread (plus a few we heard at Overland Expo).

What happens if we don’t make our goal? Short answer: we won’t be funded and our backers won’t be charged. We believe the product has a future - something the feedback from Overland Expo confirmed for us. However, if we don’t get funded through Kickstarter, we’ll have to find another way to raise funding as it’s not cheap to get something like this started. Frankly, $35k is less than we really need to get this business going, but it’ll be just enough to cover the cost of manufacturing the first run. And we don’t have $35k.

Does it work in the snow? Being from SoCal, we haven’t had a chance to test it in the snow. We are aware of techniques climbers and others use to create snow anchors (I was a high angle rescue technician in another life), so we expect it should work, but don’t want to claim that until we test it ourselves. Also, see Ground density below.

Ground density… Someone made a comment about using it in frozen ground which brings us the question of ground density. What makes the Deadman work isn’t really the weight of the soil loaded into the Deadman (it’s not a standard parachute-type anchor), it’s the fact that we’re creating a dirt ball and dragging it through the soil around it. When we first began testing prototypes we were pulling all four lines together like a typical sand anchor. However, when we altered the design to daisy chain the rear leads behind the front, the Deadman began to work reliably. What we learned was that we had to create a shear force across the ground (basically try to drag it through the soil) instead of simply rely on gravity to hold the Deadman in the ground. This was the turning point in our testing and is part of what we’re patenting. Without the offset between front and back lines, ti doesn’t hold well or reliably. Using the double-loop splice also allowed us to keep both lines the same length, giving us versatility for rocks and trees since both straps could be engaged simultaneously in these situations.

Why don’t we trench the lines? Unlike a tire or Hi-Lift, we’re not trying to pull against the bottom of the Deadman. In fact, when we DID trench in our testing, the Deadman didn’t work. The Deadman design works because we essentially create a means of dragging a pile of earth through the earth around it. This is why it works well at shallow depths in harder soil (below).

How deep of a hole do I need to dig? It depends on ground density and the recovery situation. In hardpack (e.g. frozen ground or hardback atop a steep sandy hill climb) a shallow hole of 16-18” has been enough for us to recover. In very soft sand (e.g. Baja desert) it must be deeper because the sand is so soft; we recommend 24” as a minimum. As we point out on the Kickstarter page, in a side-by-side comparison of the Deadman and a stock spare tire, the Deadman did too things: it held almost 2x the weight and it provided about 75% of that capacity even after the ground around it began to part. What it comes down to is not the weight of the soil inside the Deadman, it’s the density of the soil around it that matters most. We’ll be providing recommendations and instructions with the Deadman when it’s released, in order to guide people in its proper use, but for now our answer is “it depends on the soil and the recovery situation.”

Materials. A few people commented about the materials, so I wanted to take the opportunity to clarify that we’re using industrial grade polyester sling material that’s made in the US. The poly material is what you’ll find all tree straps are made from because it doesn’t stretch. Our lines are 15’ long and are rated at 19,600lb each. All of the materials are US made and the Deadman itself is (and always will be) made in the US. It’ll cost more, but it’s worth it to ensure people’s safety. Besides, we want to support our countrymen.

Shackles… The Deadman does require the use off shackles, just like any other tree strap or tow line. We chose to use soft shackles because we believe they’re safer - if something breaks, we don’t want shrapnel flying around! The soft shackles we use are standard size Bubba Gator Jaws. A standard metal shackle does work since we taper all of the loops, however, it’s a tight fit. Finally, we do plan to offer a package with some soft shackles, but we’re not really in the business of creating/selling shackles right now, so we opted to let customers bring their own.

Is it required to have a winch line extension and snatch block for rocks? No, but that’s the best way we’ve found to use it thus far. The snatch serves two purposes: self-balancing and creating a proper bend radius on the extension, both of which are optional, though recommended. Some rocks might be small enough to bring all 4 loops together without another strap, but unless it’s a knob or arm of some larger boulder, it’s not like to be big enough to safely winch from. Instead of a winch line extension, we’ve also used another tree strap to finish wrapping around a rock. Rocks have always been an awkward thing to anchor to given their size and shape, but the Deadman does make it easier.

I’d like to also address one other thing we didn’t address in the Kickstarter: use the right tool for the job. We own a set of MaxTrax and have used them during our testing. Sometimes the situation allows for something quick like a traction board, but other times a traction board is not the right tool either (e.g. stacking 8-10 of them together to create a ramp to ascend a steep, sandy hill). Each situation is different, so we believe having many tools in one’s toolbox is the best approach as it offers options; having options can mean a safer recovery as it can potentially eliminate the misuse of recovery tools that were not designed for the job at hand.

We’re at the beginning, but we’ve received some really positive feedback from industry veterans already. During the Overland Expo, the Camel Trophy & 7P team used two of them over and over again in many of their recovery training classes and went out of their way to share with us all many of the other ways they envision the Deadman being used - stuff we’d never thought of! Members of I4WDTA, people from HEMA, and several other respected off-road trainers came up to us to share with us their enthusiasm over the product. We even had a chance to meet with the Expedition Overland team - they’re taking it with them on their South American expedition right after the show!

We’re humbled at the terrific response we’ve received in our first weekend of operation. We know the product has a future and plan to push hard to make that a reality. We appreciate your support and ask that you continue that by sharing with others and helping us reach our Kickstarter goal!

Thanks — Daniel (on behalf of the Deadman Team)
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Hey Daniel. I wish you guys the best! I can't afford to pledge right now, but will down the line if I can or buy one when you guys hit your goal!

I'm jealous! I always try to think of how to make my hobby my job and am yet to think of a thing!

EDDO · May 17, 2017

Lord Humongous · May 17, 2017

Midday bump for an awesome product!

Z50king · May 17, 2017

I saw this all over Instagram. I knew it was going to be something simple with a huge price tag.

I was correct

Lord Humongous · May 17, 2017

Huge? ARBs recovery kits run between $260 to $400. This is really versatile product that can be had for about $130 right now. I hadn't bought a strap kit yet due to extreme price or poor quality of less expensive kits. This is the deal ive been waiting for.

friendlywithbears · May 17, 2017

Building your own recovery kit can help save costs over something like the ARB kits. You will still want and need snatch strap, tow strap, shackles, snatch block, etc. at some point, as the deadman isn't a swiss army knife.

TACOVRD · May 17, 2017

friendlywithbears said: ↑

Building your own recovery kit can help save costs over something like the ARB kits. You will still want and need snatch strap, tow strap, shackles, snatch block, etc. at some point, as the deadman isn't a swiss army knife.
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But the ARB kits come with the handy storage bag.....

HABOOBS · May 17, 2017

It's a great new product despite the haters... All you really need to use it is a pair of shackles and a shovel... Plus its more versatile than you think... It's not just a creative anchor point, it can be used as a tree saver, a mud mat, a gurney, hell even a swing...

Lord Humongous · May 18, 2017

HABOOBS said: ↑

It's a great new product despite the haters... All you really need to use it is a pair of shackles and a shovel... Plus its more versatile than you think... It's not just a creative anchor point, it can be used as a tree saver, a mud mat, a gurney, hell even a swing...
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Right! 4 wheeling is an expensive hobby and they could probably get away with charging more.
This is a great idea and doesn't need defending. Admittedly I become easily perturbed and need to remind myself that aspergers afflicts over 80 percent of Tocomaworld users. Its not their fault

EDDO · May 17, 2017

DeadmanOffroad · May 18, 2017

Lord Humongous said: ↑

Exactly build your owg yt? Gtytyn.

Right! 4 wheeling is an expensive hobby and they could probably get away with charging more.
This is a great idea and doesn't need defending. Admittedly I become easily perturbed and need to remind myself that aspergers afflicts over 80 percent of Tocomaworld users. Its not their fault
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Haha! Thanks for the feedback nonetheless!

True, this sport isn't cheap. That's one of the things that led us down this road, actually. We couldn't stomach spending ~$600 for a ground anchor on the off chance that we might need it one day... so versatility was a huge focus for us in design. In the case of the Deadman, it'll serve as your tree strap (albeit 2x as long and arguably 2x as strong) so its eminently useful as tree straps are one of the most frequently used pieces of gear. But it also gives us a better means of anchoring to rocks, something our tree straps were never good at. And then there's the fact that it's a ground anchor, too, for far less than its metal brethren. Plus it can be used as a ground mat, a field fluid catch, a radiator screen for water fording, etc, etc, etc... The gear it replaces for us not only saves space and weight, but money as well.

We know it's not for everyone, and we're very grateful for all the rich feedback we're getting. We created it out of our own need and look forward to getting it into people's hands!

friendlywithbears · May 18, 2017

DeadmanOffroad said: ↑

Haha! Thanks for the feedback nonetheless!

True, this sport isn't cheap. That's one of the things that led us down this road, actually. We couldn't stomach spending ~$600 for a ground anchor on the off chance that we might need it one day... so versatility was a huge focus for us in design. In the case of the Deadman, it'll serve as your tree strap (albeit 2x as long and arguably 2x as strong) so its eminently useful as tree straps are one of the most frequently used pieces of gear. But it also gives us a better means of anchoring to rocks, something our tree straps were never good at. And then there's the fact that it's a ground anchor, too, for far less than its metal brethren. Plus it can be used as a ground mat, a field fluid catch, a radiator screen for water fording, etc, etc, etc... The gear it replaces for us not only saves space and weight, but money as well.

We know it's not for everyone, and we're very grateful for all the rich feedback we're getting. We created it out of our own need and look forward to getting it into people's hands!
Click to expand...

I find it often takes people spending lots of money on redundant things before they recognize the benefit of single items that serve multiple purposes.

EDDO · May 18, 2017

EDDO · May 18, 2017

adanfon · May 18, 2017

EDDO said: ↑

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EDDO · May 18, 2017

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