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Dear Everybody: Help me with my 4 channel!

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by BBiggs, Aug 12, 2010.

  1. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:42 PM
    #1
    BBiggs

    BBiggs [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I just got it!
    Okay. Installed an Alpine 4 channel amp under the passenger seat, ran seperate power from the battery rather than splicing from the mono amps supply, and I grounded it to the same bolt as the mono amp.

    I installed Alpine Type R components in the front and coaxials in the back, and ran new wiring to each speaker to have thicker gauge.

    Everything about the install (I THINK) is pretty much perfect. All the wires are hidden and all the connections are soldered.

    After installing, I turned it on, and it sounded absolutely amazing. Cranked it way up and it was crystal clear, and I was super stoked. Drove around for a day with wicked sound.

    Now, today, when I turn up the volume to a certain point, the amp cuts out. The mono amp stays on, and the sub keeps pounding, but the 4 channel amp cuts out. The light on top of the amp stays on, so the amp doesn't turn off, it just stops sending signal.

    To fix it, I have to turn the volume back down, and it comes back in.


    HELP! Thanks:)
     
  2. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:46 PM
    #2
    Burgman

    Burgman I KEEEEEL YOU

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    pretty sure its a safe guard from blowing your speakers, someone else will know better tho
     
  3. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:48 PM
    #3
    ::childstoy::

    ::childstoy:: Hi-Tech Rednek

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    Do you have them Capped or straight to the battery?
     
  4. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:50 PM
    #4
    BBiggs

    BBiggs [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I just got it!
    I don't think it's overheating, because I felt it and it was cool, and I blasted the AC to the feet for about 20 minutes on my way to a buddies place as well and it didn't do anything.

    And I don't think it's the not blowing the speakers part, because the speakers are type R's which max out at 330 Watts. Which is retardedly high. And is much higher than the amp is giving them.

    I did the equation to find out the voltage the speakers should be getting... square root of: (amps RMS power per channel x impedance of speaker) Which comes out to just over 14 Volts, and then I used my multimeter and set the gain on the amp until the multimeter read 14.25 volts from the outputs on the amp. So it shouldn't be anything to do with overpowering/underpowering the speakers.
     
  5. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:51 PM
    #5
    BBiggs

    BBiggs [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I just got it!

    There is no caps, no. That's what I was thinking. Like if there was maybe a voltage drop at higher volumes?

    Do you think I'll need to add a cap?

    EDIT: I didn't think I'd need one because it is a smaller sized amp.
     
  6. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:54 PM
    #6
    ::childstoy::

    ::childstoy:: Hi-Tech Rednek

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    I would shut the other amp down just for troubleshooting puposes and just run the 4 channel. Does it shut down when its the only amp drawing power?
     
  7. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:55 PM
    #7
    ::childstoy::

    ::childstoy:: Hi-Tech Rednek

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    A cap was the first thing that came to mind. Just to regulate the input power.
     
  8. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:58 PM
    #8
    BBiggs

    BBiggs [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I just got it!
    Yeah. I'm gonna go outside in about 10 minutes and multimeter the power terminals on the amp and see if there's a drop in voltage when it happens. I'll also turn off the mono amp while doing so.

    Have you ever used a capacitor?
     
  9. Aug 12, 2010 at 1:59 PM
    #9
    Joehs

    Joehs Okie!

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    Could be a number of things...

    Voltage drop
    Amp Clip Protection
    H/U Clip Protection
    Overheating
    Too small power wire/ground wire

    Check those things and let us know, we'll go from there.
     
  10. Aug 12, 2010 at 2:03 PM
    #10
    ::childstoy::

    ::childstoy:: Hi-Tech Rednek

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    Yeah, I used to build systems for ppl on the side. I havent in a while so Im not up to par on who is best anymore or anything but I would say def go that route. I would always use one if I was running 2 amps. Keeps the power clean for when you turn on your A/C or something.
     
  11. Aug 12, 2010 at 2:04 PM
    #11
    ::childstoy::

    ::childstoy:: Hi-Tech Rednek

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    These are all things to consider as well...
     
  12. Aug 12, 2010 at 2:10 PM
    #12
    macgyver

    macgyver Well-Known Member

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    I would relocate your ground for the 4 channel to a spot of its own.

    Are you running RCA's or speaker level inputs. You didn't say...I would guess you are running RCA's with two amp. Do you have your components wired properly to get the right impedance (ohms)?
     
  13. Aug 12, 2010 at 3:17 PM
    #13
    JLee

    JLee The Man! Vendor

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    I lost track thousands of dollars ago.
    What gauge power and ground are you using?

    I personally wouldn't run 2 different power wires for my mono and my mid&high amp's.

    I'm thinking your not getting enough voltage to the amp I had the same problem in the past depending on the power of your mono amp i recommend running 0g wire to a distribution block and then running 4g to the amps. Also if you running anything more then 500watts RMS I would get a cap. Better yet pick up a Kinetik Power cell this one would work with up to 600watts RMS
    http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/product.asp?C=1&P=KHC600 these power cells will blow away any cap i had 2 KHC2000's in my old car and they are awesome.

    Just found one on Ebay for 100 bucks. http://cgi.ebay.com/KINETIK-HC600-C...P-KHC-600-/290456313276?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0
     
  14. Aug 12, 2010 at 3:19 PM
    #14
    BBiggs

    BBiggs [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I just got it!
    Okay. I just went outside, I relocated the ground of the 4 channel, and grinded paint to get a good connection. There's no voltage drop whatsoever at any point whether it's during the cut out, before or after, which is puzzling. It is 8 gauge wiring.

    I am using RCA's, and I know it's not overheating because I was just running it with the seat taken out. So it was in open air space in an air conditioned garage, and hadn't been running all day until now.


    So. Clip protection, then? Even though it was running fine yesterday? What exactly is clip protection and how do I get rid of it?


    Specs:

    Mono Amp:
    500 W RMS x 1 @ 2 Ohms

    Sub:
    300 W RMS @ 2 Ohms

    4 Channel Amp:
    50 W RMS x 4 @ 4 Ohms
    75 W RMS x 4 @ 2 Ohms

    Speakers:
    110 W RMS @ 4 Ohms


    Gain on the amp is set to get 14.25 Volts from the outputs, as the equation states I should be doing.

    What does everyone think I should do?


    Also, The multimeter reads about 13.11 Volts on average when connected to the power terminals on the amp.
     
  15. Aug 12, 2010 at 3:32 PM
    #15
    rhodehard09

    rhodehard09 sometimes nonsense is the only sense someone has

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    so 13.11 volts when both amps are on with music playing pretty loud?
    what hu you running?
    have you tried to lower the gain a bit?
     
  16. Aug 12, 2010 at 3:34 PM
    #16
    Rusty White Taco

    Rusty White Taco Active Member

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    There are so many things to check. Here are a few:

    1. Verify that your head unit is properly grounded - If it is not properly grounded and it is connected to an amplifier via RCA cables, the head unit will seek ground through the RCAs which would cause the amplifier to sense DC current through the RCAs and it would go into protection mode.

    2. Verify that your speakers are wired correctly (i.e. not bridged, etc.), although I doubt this is the issue becuase the amplifier would get warm/hot if this were the case.

    3. Inspect ALL of your speaker wires and where the speaker terminals are near metal. My guess is that there is a short to ground somewhere in the speaker wires/terminals. I'd remove each speaker and inspect every inch of speaker wire between the amp and the speakers and then test again. If the issue goes away, look to see what may be touching metal.
     
  17. Aug 13, 2010 at 12:22 AM
    #17
    BBiggs

    BBiggs [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I just got it!

    13.11 Volts, both amps on, music playing loud, one amp on, music playing quiet. All of that.

    It's a Kenwood Excelon KDC X794.

    Yeah, I've tried the gain lowering.

    And Rusty White Taco, are the first and third suggestions worth giving a try, you think? My head unit is just grounded via the wiring harness.
     
  18. Aug 13, 2010 at 12:26 AM
    #18
    tacobo670

    tacobo670 if you have to ask, u can't afford it

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    first thing check this - Alpine amp.
    replace Alpine amp.
    problem solved.
     
  19. Aug 13, 2010 at 6:27 AM
    #19
    Rusty White Taco

    Rusty White Taco Active Member

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    If you're sure about the ground, then #3 is absolutely worth it. I've seen this exact thing before caused by a speaker terminal touching ground. Additionally, since you said you ran all new speaker wire, there's an added chance of a short to ground somewhere. If you want to simplify the testing, here's what you could do... On the amp, disconnect all of the speaker connections and then try reconnecting one speaker and see if it still cuts out. If it doesn't cut out, disconnect that one, then move to the next. Do this until you find the culprit and then trace that wire to see where the issue is.
     
  20. Aug 13, 2010 at 6:40 AM
    #20
    macgyver

    macgyver Well-Known Member

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    Whats wrong with Alpine amps? They actually make pretty good amps. Not the best on the market but better amps than many of the other manufacturers. I have been running alpine amps for a long time with zero issues. I ran an alpine 2 channel bridged in my last vehicle running an infinity kappa 12 for 6 years. I run a alpine 4 channel in my tacoma, front channel running alpine type-s components and rear channel bridged running an infinity reference 10.
     
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