1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

Discussion in 'Off-Roading & Trails' started by Crom, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. May 2, 2020 at 7:50 AM
    #3801
    stickyTaco

    stickyTaco Fuck Cancer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Member:
    #92904
    Messages:
    5,930
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Zack
    Reno/Tahoe
    Vehicle:
    '12 DCSB TRD-OR
    Fox/Dakar with Relentless goodies and stuff
    Cut off like :sawzall: or just made non-functional temporarily while people aren't supposed to be in the park?
     
    Drainbung and BalutTaco like this.
  2. May 2, 2020 at 10:14 AM
    #3802
    DVexile

    DVexile Exiled to the East

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Member:
    #144469
    Messages:
    2,782
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB V6 TRD OR 4X4
    Cut, unscrewed or removed. Basically you can't fill the pools anymore. It is just basic plumbing to fix it again after the closure is over. The springs attracts a lot of different people with a heavy bias toward dumb-asses. Said dumb-asses kept going to the springs despite the closure and LEOs at least once made the long drive out to chase them away. Looks like they made it hard to fill the pools while the closure is in effect to discourage dumb-asses. Apparently showers and sinks still work. Likely Lee has the valves tucked away someplace and it would take all of an afternoon to put them back when the closure is over. More enterprising dumb-asses could probably bring their own tools and still fill a pool but that's more effort and planning than your bog standard dumb-ass can bring to bear. Plus it is getting hot out there.
     
    ihatemytruck, Crom[OP], Zam15 and 2 others like this.
  3. May 2, 2020 at 10:30 AM
    #3803
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    I’d read recently the park service would like to remove them but has no plans to do so. Removing the faucets is probably the smart thing to do to keep people away lest they be closed permanently.

    Which brings up the question what is the natural condition? I feel the general consensus is “nature” where I often think it’s just as important to maintain places that have historical significance and that, to me includes places like the springs.
     
    nDub, Zam15, DVexile and 1 other person like this.
  4. May 2, 2020 at 10:53 AM
    #3804
    ETAV8R

    ETAV8R Out DERP'n

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Member:
    #4832
    Messages:
    4,927
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    MGM 09 AC 4WD V6 TRD-OR w/ Tradesman Shell
    Just the basics
    The management plan specific to Saline Valley Warm Springs has been finalized and while some may like to have the pools removed the park service has agreed they have historical significance due to the amount of time they have been in place. The upper springs are in "natural condition" and are available for those who seek that experience.

    When it was a Monument prior to Park status Saline Valley was outside the Monument and under BLM regulation. Those who argue "natural condition" raise the question how far back in time should it be restored to? Prior to any human interventions? 10 years, 50 years, etc?

    The valves did not need to be cut off. The camp host is there to inform people who show up that not only is the park closed (o_O) but that the springs are too.
     
    Drainbung likes this.
  5. May 2, 2020 at 11:04 AM
    #3805
    theesotericone

    theesotericone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Member:
    #260800
    Messages:
    12,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Bishop CA
    The fight to save Camp 4 in the Valley is often cited as precedent for things like this. In the late 90's the NPS wanted to build employee housing where Camp 4 is. Tom Frost and the AAC sued the park service claiming it had historic significance. They won the suit and Camp 4 was placed on the National Register of Historic Places.

    Climbers first started using Camp 4 in the early 50's. The lawsuit took place in the late 90's. So, 40 years seems to be about right.
     
    Crom[OP], DVexile, ian408 and 3 others like this.
  6. May 2, 2020 at 11:17 AM
    #3806
    DVexile

    DVexile Exiled to the East

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Member:
    #144469
    Messages:
    2,782
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB V6 TRD OR 4X4
    Many people who visit the springs regularly ignore what the camp host tells them. Removing the valves is a trivial thing to do that sends a clear message the pools are closed and doesn't require any confrontation between the host and malcontents 80 miles from any sort of LEO support for the host. It reduces the need for LEOs to drive hours at taxpayer expense to evict people from the closed springs. This is such a no brainer I'm kind of amazed people are fussing about it. The pools are closed. They temporarily removed the valves to make that message abundantly clear to dumb-assess that otherwise can't get the message through the dung-heaps that sit on their shoulders. When the closure is over they put the valves back. It is 30 minute job at most. It isn't a perfect solution but it is an almost zero cost and zero effort solution that reduces the need for more confrontational and expensive outcomes. What's the big deal?
     
    ihatemytruck, Skada, Crom[OP] and 8 others like this.
  7. May 2, 2020 at 11:30 AM
    #3807
    theesotericone

    theesotericone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Member:
    #260800
    Messages:
    12,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Bishop CA
    Exactly. The people who are violating a stay at home order to go to the springs are the last ones that would listen, much less obey, what a camp host says.
     
  8. May 2, 2020 at 12:26 PM
    #3808
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    My comment regarding "natural condition" referred to preservation within the Park Service (maybe other places as well). Not just the springs-hence my remark regarding no plans to close the springs.

    You'd like to think people would be respectful enough and obey the closed signs. But as Instagram has shown, they don't. I really do think it's a reasonable way to solve the problem, not ideal. Reasonable.
     
    DVexile and Drainbung like this.
  9. May 2, 2020 at 7:15 PM
    #3809
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    This is a good example of historical significance that's relevant today.
     
  10. May 2, 2020 at 9:14 PM
    #3810
    ETAV8R

    ETAV8R Out DERP'n

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Member:
    #4832
    Messages:
    4,927
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    MGM 09 AC 4WD V6 TRD-OR w/ Tradesman Shell
    Just the basics
    The camp host who violates park regulations on a daily basis by feeding the wildlife? The same camp host who, at times, picks and chooses which license plates to keep track of?
    I've got to respectfully disagree about the assessment of the current host. He serves a purpose but he serves himself too.

    I agree it would be a long delay for the LEOs to get there but they do get paid to enforce park regs. More people need citations for the bs that happens in our parks and the more patrols that happen and citations issued the more the word gets out. Then we might see less vandalism.

    Imagine getting paid to take a government supplied 4or off roading in your favorite place. It doesn't pay great but it would be awesome most of the time.
     
  11. May 2, 2020 at 9:22 PM
    #3811
    turbodb

    turbodb AdventureTaco

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    Member:
    #177696
    Messages:
    8,548
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dan
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2000 Tacoma Xcab 4x4 SR5 V6 TRD
    AdventureTaco
    Here's the great thing - I agree with what both of you are saying. On the one hand - the park is closed; seems reasonable to remove the handles to prevent "casual misuse." Who does it - LEO or the camp host - is (to me) irrelevant. On the other - while I don't know the host at the springs, I'm sure that he (like everyone else) doesn't always do things 100% fairly. And, of course it wouldn't hurt to have more LEO presence. So then, we're back to "one hand" - any little bit helps. :thumbsup: :D
     
  12. May 3, 2020 at 4:40 AM
    #3812
    DVexile

    DVexile Exiled to the East

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Member:
    #144469
    Messages:
    2,782
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB V6 TRD OR 4X4
    I didn’t assess the current host in my post at all. In fact my assessment more or less matches yours. Actually I’d probably be even more critical. That said it is a separate issue from removing the valves. With the current host and his issues or with a different host making it temporarily difficult to fill the tubs is sensible way to discourage violation of the closure.

    I’d love to see more patrols and citations as well but that costs money and so again we are left with what are the best methods to do enforcement given the patrol resources that are available within the budget. Removed valves makes it more likely patrols can spend more time in other parts of the park. It isn’t a wonderful solution but seems sensible given the actual alternatives. And that’s the way to evaluate most things. Compare not to the ideal but rather to the available alternatives.
     
    Hobbs, ihatemytruck, BKinzey and 2 others like this.
  13. May 4, 2020 at 2:00 PM
    #3813
    pseudonym

    pseudonym Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Member:
    #281289
    Messages:
    115
    Gender:
    Male
    Livermore, Ca.
    Vehicle:
    2018 SR5 AC 4x4 V6, 1997 FZJ80
    Looks like this one, at least, was actually cut off.

    valve.jpg
     
    SIZZLE likes this.
  14. May 4, 2020 at 2:57 PM
    #3814
    theick

    theick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2018
    Member:
    #273933
    Messages:
    203
    First Name:
    Eric
    Las Vegas
    That's going to be a bitch to fix.
     
    Drainbung and Yetimetchkangmi like this.
  15. May 4, 2020 at 2:57 PM
    #3815
    ian408

    ian408 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Member:
    #25619
    Messages:
    19,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ian
    Santa Clara, CA
    Vehicle:
    09 Tacoma
    That's not cool and it looks more like vandalism.
     
  16. May 4, 2020 at 2:59 PM
    #3816
    theick

    theick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2018
    Member:
    #273933
    Messages:
    203
    First Name:
    Eric
    Las Vegas
    That's a 1/2" line. It might be feeding the shower but I don't think that is what feeds any of the pools.
     
  17. May 4, 2020 at 3:50 PM
    #3817
    DVexile

    DVexile Exiled to the East

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Member:
    #144469
    Messages:
    2,782
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ken
    Vehicle:
    2015 DCSB V6 TRD OR 4X4
    I think that is actually the valve handle that is cut off with the valve turned off. Which matches with what some said on other forums that the valves will need to be replaced entirely.
     
  18. May 4, 2020 at 4:45 PM
    #3818
    theesotericone

    theesotericone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Member:
    #260800
    Messages:
    12,378
    Gender:
    Male
    Bishop CA
    Take handle, take welder, weld handle to valve. All fixed.
     
  19. May 4, 2020 at 4:47 PM
    #3819
    INBONESTRYKER

    INBONESTRYKER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Member:
    #152650
    Messages:
    662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    John
    WY
    Vehicle:
    '96 access cab 3.4 5 spd manual 4X4
    Nah! A dremel with a slitting blade or a cutoff wheel could make a straight screwdriver slot in a few minutes. Well, depending on operator skill.
     
    Crom[OP] likes this.
  20. May 4, 2020 at 4:50 PM
    #3820
    sawbladeduller

    sawbladeduller semi-realist

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Member:
    #139583
    Messages:
    1,171
    Gender:
    Male
    North Cal
    Vehicle:
    '15 DCSB '98 2.7L
    fully zip tied
    .....pump don't work cuz the vandals took the handle...
     
    Lastplace, dman100, Drainbung and 2 others like this.

Products Discussed in

To Top