Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

In many ways, it's a relevant topic as you see restrictions on large groups (commercial and private) in the park. idk. I think it's fair to restrict commercial interests in the park especially during the peak seasons. Running in the park in July? No problem. Adding a hundred competitors to the Whitney trail during its peak season? That might be where the problem comes into play.

The limits allow everyone to have a good experience in the park.

 

There's always been a hate/hate relationship between LEO and climbers in the Valley. Since it was mainly climbers that started to BASE from El Cap and Half Dome the park service banned it. The excuse they used was "public safety".

 

I have both and I would recommend both as well, but I'm very much a book guy so perhaps take that with a grain of salt. Neither are any sort of field guide and are really for reading at home. Like all books on deserts they spend some number of pages discussing what is a desert and common adaption strategies of desert flora and fauna. So if you have any sort of desert natural history book that's going to be sort of repetitive. And if you have other books on the Mojave there will be overlap as well. That said both are good self contained natural history books on the region.

Both also talk about human impacts, preservation and future threats specific to the regions covered.

 

For sure. That's been going on for years. But the Park Service has to weigh that against the need to maintain the place for everyone.

 

Also, it is dangerous.

https://www.hcn.org/issues/47.12/deaths-renew-calls-for-national-parks-to-rescind-base-jumping-bans

I'm of the idea that if something is dangerous and the Park Service outlawing it makes it arguably more dangerous and I still make the decision to go anyway, then that decision is on me. Now if the Park Service decides to take pot shots at jumpers, then I'll change my stance.

 

Restricting something cannot make it more dangerous because you are not supposed to be doing whatever "it" is. But since you said if you made the decision to go anyway it was on you then why would it be the ranger's fault if you were hurt while being chased?

 

Anytime I decide to go climbing that decision is on me. There's always a small chance of death doing it. The same when I kayak. Or bungie. Or even go for a long alpine backpacking trip. So it's absolutely a personal decision on how much risk you decide to take.

I've lost friends from BASE and wing suiting. I've lost some from climbing accidents. I've lost some from cancer and car accidents. Point is life is dangerous and fleeting.

As long as my activities don't endanger anyone else I should be able to make that choice for myself. If BASE had a likely hood of injuring someone on the ground I'd be all for making it illegal in the NPS. The fact is you've got a higher chance of dying hiking in the Valley then being injured by a BASE jumper. It was made illegal because of a long standing grudge against climbers. That's not the way I want our NPS to make decisions. Make them based on fact.

Fact is BASE has a .04% mortality rate world wide. Maybe the NPS should ban swimming and cycling as well.

 

Maybe my position wasn't made clear.

If I have property that has No Trespassing signs and people still trespass. So I put up a barbwire fence, that does make it harder to trespass and if someone decides to cross the fence and gets scratched, that's not my fault. In the article I posted about the base jumping problems in Yosemite, some people pointed to the Rangers chasing the guy who drowned. He made the decision to jump in the river in trying to escape. That's not the Rangers fault.

I also posted the link because ironically someone died during a protest and base jumping is dangerous.

 

When it requires SAR resources to save someone or do body recovery it is in fact more than a personal decision. This is part of why certain activities, such as swimming, are also banned in particular areas.

BASE jumping would require body recovery about once per every 2,000 jumps. Injuries occur in one of every 250 jumps and one third of those require helicopter rescue. Those are very high numbers compared to other outdoor activities. One can argue about what the threshold of burden is, but the numbers from studies are very clear - BASE jumping incurs a significantly higher burden on SAR resources per participant than permitted activities.

Actually life isn’t dangerous or fleeting at all. People rationalize dangerous behavior with the above false equivalence kind of fallacy all of the time, but it is poor logic and reasoning. One might still decide to undertake the risk, which is fine, but using ridiculous reasoning to rationalize taking the risk is really just sticking one’s head in the sand.

Maybe you know a different history, but the one I’m aware of has zero to do with rock climbers and everything to do with parachuting. BASE jumping was briefly allowed in Yosemite and a significant fraction of the parachuting community made complete ass hats of themselves. That was, however, a long time ago.

I have little doubt NPS bans BASE jumping for more than just safety reasons. Maybe they could re-examine it, but the last time they tried it the community ruined it for themselves. By contrast hang gliding is still permitted since they knew how to behave way back when.

Again, bad or grossly misleading use of statistics. BASE has a mortality rate of .04% per jump. Cycling has a fatality rate of .00011% per 100 miles travelled.

Personally I don’t have a particularly strong opinion one way or another on BASE jumping in Yosemite. That place is a tourist cluster fuck anyway so by all means pile in BASE jumping, drones and advertising blimps for all I care.

As to DVNP there seem to be limited to no appropriate places to do BASE jumping.

 

Agree that more calls would come in for SAR. Want to know the number one SAR call world wide? Missing or injured hiker. By your rational eliminating hiking would help reduce the stress on SARs. BTW, most SAR guys I know would much rather be in-service then hanging out in Camp 4.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ional-parks/rmxtZQhUBrPDx76XIaexrI/story.html

At best I've got 100 years on this planet. I chose to spend that time enjoying my life by taking risk that makes me feel like I'm truly living. Others stick their head in the sand and stay away from it. Life is indeed fleeting. The dangerous point is left to the user.

Having climbed in the Valley for years my info is based on heresy from the climbing community. I have no reason to believe that parachutists also waved the middle finger at LEO. In reality it's probably a combo of both.

Never tried to argue about the stats. Just stated that swimming and cycling are also high on the list. BASE is dangerous.

There's probably a few launch points in DV but none that would draw masses like those in the Valley. I know this is the DV thread but just going with the flow in regard to BASE being illegal in the NPS.

 

Just sitting here having breakfast when I see Flash Flood Warnings for DV and the surrounding area. Parts of the Owens Valley are included as are parts of AZ
And UT.

yikes!

 

what is the name of the trail that silt bed is on?

 

Yep. There's been storms over the Sierra and Whites for the last few days and it's gonna continue through most of next week. It's nice to see an actual monsoon pattern set-up that can deliver some rain.

 

Hopefully, the ground is able to absorb the rain and not have it run off.

 

OBTW, I saw a facebook post about a study UCSF is doing on Acute Mountain Sickness medications. If you live near San Francisco, there are a couple of on site visits and then three days at Barcroft. You're free to wander Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest or hang out at the lab. Pays $1500 at the end. All meals and transportation provided. Look for the UCSF facebook page.

 

AMS has been studied for a long time. So far the only viable options are 100% oxygen or descending. A part of me hopes they never find a cure for it. Suffering and failure is part of the alpine game.

 

I don't think they're looking for a cure but mitigation. Like you said, the only cure is higher O2 concentration either by rapid descent or starting a high concentration of oxygen. There are a couple or three drugs that help but again, not a cure.

 

AMS is an interesting thing. I've spent 100's of days above 12K. I've only had two times that AMS sent me back down. On those two incidents there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that if I kept pushing I would end up in a very bad state. Nothing was different from the other 100's of times I went to altitude. Fitness, food, mental state all the same.

 

It’s a very strange thing. I don’t have 100’s of experiences but it’s fascinating how the body reacts. Reading through the docs, sounds like this will be a Chinese herb thing. Tho I’d be down for a few days at the lab, turns out you ride with them. I’d love to stay a bit longer and take advantage of the night sky.

 

Its the trail from Hunter mountain to Tea Kettle Junction thru Hidden valley.
https://earth.google.com/web/@36.68628399,-117.49634631,1395.69503663a,7671.2291257d,35y,0h,0t,0r