Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

This photo earlier in the thread:



Was taken here:



It's right on a significant drainage so not too surprising. The post indicated the road was worse than the photo a bit further on.

The rest of the Tram to Cerro Gordo route is mostly on a ridge so I wouldn't expect much opportunity for washouts. Here where it dips down into a drainage is the one spot it can see a fair bit of water.

 

New Camping Rules for Echo, Hole-in-the-Wall, Cottonwood/Marble

Not sure when this started, sometime after May at least, but backcountry camping along the above roads now requires a free permit and can only be in designated sites along the routes. Honestly, this is totally necessary at this point due to overuse.

Permits must be collected in person during Visitor Center business hours and only the day of or the day before (first come, first serve, no reservations).

Details on the Backcountry Camping page:

https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/backcamp.htm

All of theses roads are closed due to the recent flooding at present. I’m guessing they are setting up the designated spots as they regrade the routes? Or had anyone seen them before the floods?

 

Permits being only available day-of and the day before seems like a potential issue for those of us without satellite internet.

 

I agree.

 

but the permits are only available in person during business hours.

 

You're right. I was looking at it on my phone and the link for the permit available online was actually for backpacking, not roadside camping.

edit: And those are available anytime, anyway.

edit: I suppose this means that a plan to enter the park through and camp along Echo wouldn't work out, short of making a very long, inconvenient round-trip.

 

When I read through it, I got the impression you could call ahead and pick them up. As an example, in a place with spotty cell service, that would give the advantage to someone in say Ridgecrest vs someone 5 miles from the Visitor Center.

I am glad to see limits being placed on groups. Well, real limits.

 

Designated Backcountry Camping Details

So the new designated camping policy, like nearly everything in the park, was already laid out in the park planning documents which I finally went and looked at:

See section 2.5.5 on page 69 for the plans for Designated Roadside Camping Corridors under Alternative D (the selected alternative):

https://parkplanning.nps.gov/showFi..._Backcountry_Stewardship_Plan.pdf&sfid=139732

With some minor changes for a phased roll out in the final selection document (page 2, item 5 and Camping section on page 3):

https://parkplanning.nps.gov/showFi...ONSI_with_Errata___Appendices.pdf&sfid=164206

For those that don't want to go document diving the salient facts are to expect 4-9 sites on Echo, 3-6 on Hole, 6-10 on Cottonwood, and 2-4 on Marble. Greenwater Rd is also going to become a DRCC eventually with 3-6 sites. So it sounds as if the sites might be well spread out.

Also they may require pack out all human waste for both backpacking and vehicle camping on Cottonwood/Marble during seasonal peak times if it becomes necessary.

 

Thanks for posting. If I read correctly, in first document, pages 69 and 70 that permits will be required for all backcountry cabins and Butte Valley cabins will be limited to 3 day stays and off limits for up to 6 months per year so that park can manage them for administrative purposes which translates to NPS reserving them for guest researchers and artists. May not happen immediately as NPS will “rehabilitate” the cabins first for administrative use - although my guess is they will also be off limits during rehabilitation.

 

I am certain "administrative purposes" means "in the winter" so the general public would likely lose cabins during the months they're most likely to visit. I know that permits are meant to limit the damage large numbers of people do but damn. Pretty soon you'll need an attorney to secure your spot in the National Parks.

 

I haven't read the documents noted but I seem to remember that the NPS talked about refurbishing the Warm Springs location. Then they would have two locations in DVNP with swimming pools that the public doesn't have access to.

If the NPS is talking about the Butte Valley cabins being off limits during prime months I fear that the public will find new spots to camp and damage and trash those areas. It is a double edged sword.

 

They don't say when, they use vague terms like "up to". If they add amenities like HVAC or other electric appliances, you can bet the public will never have access. And in some sense, renovating cabins strays from the mission of the parks, "to preserve".

Bring a trailer and park it somewhere. FEMA has plenty of them.

 

Even more reservations coming. Next weekend we're in LAS for the Off Road Motorsports Hall of Fame ceremony, then on Tuesday we're visiting the SEMA Show. But we have time to kill on Monday, so we're headed to the Valley of Fire. On the VoF site, this interesting sentence: "Reservation System coming to Nevada State Parks in 2023!"

 

Interesting....so basically no more free-for-all camping at Echo or Hole? It sounds like anything not a part of the new designated sites are being "restored to natural conditions". I wonder how long before these become reservation only sites..

 

Unfortunately, I think reservations will be the thing for all very soon. I've supported them in the past as a way to mitigate damage from crowds but as the park service has begun using them more and more, I'm not sure I can continue to support them. Especially when the result is loss of access.

 

Yea, I don't go anywhere real remote but I do enjoy camping at Hole, Echo and Lee Flat. That would suck if they all became reservation type areas.

 

It would be nice if you could get them at the Interagency Center in Lone Pine. If they need to coordinate the number of permits issued, one location could call the other. But I don’t suppose making it convenient is a goal.

 

That is a fantastic idea given that a lot of people going to Butte Valley will enter on BLM lands through Goler Wash to get there. Having to go to Furnance Creek to pick up for the same day use is a long out of way drive for those…but does ensure they collect your park fees.

 

Look who you're dealing with...

 

Travel distances, especially with sky high fuel costs in the park, for permits seems a bit unfair. But the. So does going to Lone Pine—which is a good idea if your DV plans needed to change.