Demon Hooks... anyone try them?

Tow hoop? The Jeep is stronger...



Tow hook? I'd still assume the Jeep.

 

No, I’d imagine most of that came from it not being 4 wheels down. But I’m not the recovery expert here.

 

Sigh. Engineers.

The job equivalent to millennials telling us that they can “search that up on the web” when we ask them stupid questions like what decade the Civil War happened.

 

Got other pictures for context? Which way was the truck pulled? How buried was the passenger side? What was the connection method?

 

Don't know... didn't really mean that as a serious response. Just saw the image when I was looking for these supposed hook failures.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/tow-hook-broke.592562/

 

Sigh, people who aren't engineers.

Seems like everyone always tries to "classify" engineers by a type (ego, introvert, know it all... etc). The assholes you've dealt with in the past weren't a special type just because they were engineers. They were probably just asshole people...

I work closely with multiple departments and disciplines, but mostly construction. From early in my career, I've always valued other people's input and direction, and above all else, experience. People always seem caught off guard by that and would always say, "I knew this one engineer. He'd never do this..." or "he'd always did that..."

Yeah, those people were assholes... assholes that were engineers... but at the root, just assholes. They're EVERYWHERE, and believe it or not, they've infiltrated ALL of our professions...

End rant. Sorry, I'm an asshole engineer, but I just want it to be recognized... I was an asshole first!

 

Nah, they (you!) don’t seem more asshole-ish than the next group. I was just poking fun at your response regarding “looking up specs.” I worked with plenty of solid civil and structural and electrical engineers during my time in land development.

But really, back to demon hooks. Can someone do the equivalent of these guys?

 

Those factory bolts… demon says to reuse them…anyone know what the ratings are for the factory bolts ?

after reading many of the comments…my feeling is…the factory tow hook on the passenger side is design to use for towing, easy roads, and the factory loop-on, the driver side ,was use to tie the Tacoma truck down, for shipping purpose only…. Both sides were use as tie downs, but passenger side was design for towing on the roads..if using for heavy recovery…Use with caution?

The demon brackets, passenger side seems to be the stronger side for recovery (but use caution)…if you are going to use the driver side? You may want to not consider using this side for any recovery or any towing…?

Demon brackets…does add to the looks… the saying goes the chain is only as strong as the weakest link..
How many links do you see on demon brackets system?
Aloha

 

So, after receiving mine and bolting them on, I can say pretty confidently that I will absolutely NOT put anything on these unless it is literally the only other option.

I plan to work with a buddy to custom make something a bit more robust at similar costs that I can actually trust. In the meantime, they can hang.

Edit to say that the issue is that the only way I could trust these as they sit is straight-line, and even then, I'm hesitant. We're talking perfect world pulling, but if you're pulling flat and straight, you shouldn't be stuck. Those things are too heavy and robust to turn into projectiles.

 

I'll spin up a response, even though it most likely will carry zero weight with most of the supporters of these hooks.

To start, practicing structural engineer with degrees in mechanical engineering and mathematics. Unlike @Bertw192, I spend 90% of my time as an engineer doing calculations. I have significant steel to steel connection design experience.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: These are for decoration only. I would never use these to perform any sort of real recovery for someone stuck somewhere. I'd crawl in the mud and shackle to the damn LCA before I tugged on this decorative piece.

For those that want calculations, my billable rate for engineering work is $280/hour. Start sending money to demonhooksaintstructural@gmail.com via Paypal and I'll get to working on what you want.

All joking aside, calculations don't need to be performed. This is the value of what we call 'experience'. I've saved homeowners and clients hundreds of thousands of dollars by immediately recognizing an idea or sketch of a design as not appropriate or not possible. I don't need to go down the rabbit hole of finding out that required capacity is greater than actual capacity by putting it into specific numbers on a sheet of paper. That would be a waste of time and a waste of their money.

To be fair, I do have a friend who is about to have his front end cut off of his Tacoma for a JD Fab kit to be installed. I will see if he wants to use his truck to torture test a set of these prior to chopping off his lower crossmember. If he agrees, I'll buy a set of these and procure a load cell from someone. I'll determine an accurate number representing what the loading a hook would experience in a real life recovery and then we will compare that to what the hook can actually handle prior to deformation/failure.

To close: I happen to work very closely with ropes and slings as well as steel and wood. You load test 30 year old ropes in a test bed because your eye cannot determine what is actually going on with that rope/sling. If it was properly stored and cared for it very well may be as strong as it was when it was new (or close enough that it doesn't matter during real use). But you can't see that with your eyes, or feel it with your hands (unless of course the rope is damaged in some way, but let's say it's not). A load test is necessary to determine it's strength. Same goes for a bolt, rod, etc. You can't physically see any issues with the naked eye and there is no engineering judgment that can be applied to immediately give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Real world testing is required.

This same level of testing/scrutiny is not required to know that the decorative demon hook is an incomplete/faulty/unsafe design, when used as a structural component.

Alright, enough for now. Let's ignore the literal professional and continue beating this dead horse!

 

Not a clue, but the TRD hook also uses the factory bolts and hasn't resulted in death or damage when I've used it for pulling or being pulled on the trail.

 

I like how you called me out for not providing calculations... but then proceed to offer none yourself.

However, I agree with your approach. First, experience... short of that, destructive testing.

 

You mean the faux beadlock shackle? Designed to match your faux beadlock wheels. C’mon. It’s beautiful.

 

I’m going to have my wife Venmo him what will potentially be $500 in (what is now obscure) crypto by the time he’s done with the calcs. How do I know it’s going to be $500 even though it’s only $1 now? I’m glad you asked. The answer is I’m an engineer.

 

Not my intent, so my apologies. Other posters specifically requested calculations be done. You openly admit that while you are highly qualified, you reference specs in your day to day, that you are not calculation heavy. Another poster says something about 'typical engineers' just referencing some document, in response to you simply quoting from the owners manual. I attempt to help solidify the stance that you and I both share, all while hopefully increasing the strength of that viewpoint by communicating that I do indeed do calculation heavy work on the day to day. Boom, we cover all of the bases, together.

But, you seem to miss that. Instead, you perpetuate some of that 'typical engineer' behavior by assuming I am calling you out, despite that not being the case, all while I provided a lot of context about why calculations aren't necessary in the first place!

You're more than welcome to send money to the Paypal address above like everyone else so this can be settled once and for all. Or, you know, the two of us could continue to bicker back and forth, further decreasing the perceived validity of our professional stance against these hooks!

 

No apology necessary. I wasn't offended in the slightest. I was just pointing out how it seemed like you were about to provide calculations, but then back peddled (for very valid reasons).

Again... not offended. As @Malvolio can attest to, I don't take myself that seriously. Especially not on TW.

I'm all for contributing to the scientific process. If you end up following through, I may be convinced to kick some funds your way.

 

Guys, enough foreplay. Let’s break some shit.

 

+ For science!

 

You've never complained about my foreplay in the past...


But yes... it's time to break shit!

 

I am 100% joking on the funds for calculations thing.

In communication with someone now about testing these to failure. I'll keep this thread updated.