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Demon Mounts for Tacoma D Ring Upgrade without Off-road Bumper

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by AtlasShrugged383, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. Apr 30, 2021 at 9:14 PM
    #141
    VTCAL

    VTCAL Well-Known Member

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    I would say encourage all future posts to include evidence (good or bad) . Even if the evidence is only "I like the way they look".
    The nay sayers have a good position in being conservative. They can always be pleasantly surprised. Or supported in the event of failure of this element of the chain.
    (Pray no one gets hurt is for All high energy situations)
    The supporters have a position as well. They are likely to never need "recovery" from any mall crawling situation. And a pull back onto a snowy back road after sliding into the bank can hardly be considered a "recovery". And yes, With three kids, each going off the roads in different vehicles (two totaled, no one hurt) along with myself off a 15 foot embankment on a freezing rain drive home, I do know the difference between a tug back onto the road out and a "recovery.

    Really, there isn't any reason to discredit the brackets, They are what they are. Can anyone say they are worse than hooking under the bumper "to something"?

    Or wrapping around an axle and tearing up the brake lines? Recovery where I live means a vehicle over the bank and likely smashed into a tree a rock or a stream. A wheel harness. A tow truck, and trained professionals.

    I'm sticking with the receiver hitches ;-)
     
    Hoyt Archer and averagejp like this.
  2. May 1, 2021 at 6:31 AM
    #142
    gForceDude

    gForceDude High Miles & Big Smiles

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    Yesterday I visited an old acquaintance, whom I have worked with many times over the years, as our careers crossed paths. He is a licensed, practicing Structural Engineer with over three decades of experience, and for whom structural steel-to-steel connections are a large area of his expertise.
    I handed him this hook to evaluate (I only installed the one on the driver's side, so the other one was readily available for him to evaluate). His first words were, "It looks to be well made."
    I then showed him the one installed on the driver's side of my truck, to which he stated, "It looks like a good design, and it should be as strong as what it is attached to there."
    This was a real-world hands-on evaluation by a licensed, practicing Structural Engineer.

    Now, you stated above that "Literally every single one of [my] statements is incorrect in some way, shape, or form."
    But, of course, you never elaborated.

    For others reading this now, here is my statement which you say is so incorrect:
    "The photos in Post #14 (above) clearly show that these are attached to the front cross-member on the frame.
    They are attached to the same front cross-member that the factory hook is attached to.
    They are designed to actually wrap around this cross-member, and pull directly from that wrap-around attachment, and not from the bolt itself. The bolt merely holds it in place, while the wrap-around design provides the strength. These are literally as strong as the cross-member on the frame - the cross-member on the frame will fail before these fail !"


    I stand by my statement - it is undeniably both factual and accurate; and my observations have now been confirmed by a licensed, practicing Structural Engineer.
    But you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect that; although there is no question that we will have to agree to disagree, for obvious reasons.

    I like this hook, and it works for me - literally, experientially, and in the real-world. I use the factory hook on the passenger side, and I pull out a shackle and use this hook when that is the more appropriate connection choice - they work for me, for what I use them for, no problems. I typically find myself pulling out someone stuck in mud, snow/ice, and sand on the beach. I do prefer to pull from the hitch on the back, but there are times when pulling from the front is better, and these hooks work for me. There is no question that a direct connection to the frame is a superior attachment, but these work well for what I am using them for - no problems.

    It's okay with me if you don't like or approve of this product, and again, I respect that.
    But, although I deserve the same respect for my opinion and my personal experience, I now realize that I cannot expect that here. And that is indeed a very sad commentary.
     
    CalgaryQuicksand likes this.
  3. May 1, 2021 at 6:54 AM
    #143
    barf

    barf Petter of Dogs

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    This sounds like some made up, back pedaling fuck-tardery. You just “happen to cross paths with” an old engineer buddy WHO IS SAYING WHAT WE SAID ALL ALONG. No one is doubting the strength of the bracket. We are pointing out that the crossbar is not sturdy enough for recovery. Which your fake engineer friend said. “As strong as what it’s attached to.” You have proven yourself wrong with your last post. Please just stop.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  4. May 1, 2021 at 6:56 AM
    #144
    jmneill

    jmneill Well-Known Member

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    now-this-is-what-trying-too-hard-looks-like.jpg
     
  5. May 1, 2021 at 7:01 AM
    #145
    barf

    barf Petter of Dogs

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    This man just walks around with the passenger side bracket in his pocket, in case he runs into an engineer buddy.

     
  6. May 1, 2021 at 7:04 AM
    #146
    jmneill

    jmneill Well-Known Member

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    LMAO

    Time for a quick pick on the Powerball..
     
    MR E30, Doc62 and barf like this.
  7. May 1, 2021 at 10:16 AM
    #147
    Hoyt Archer

    Hoyt Archer New Member

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    update on the DIY "recovery" brackets

     
  8. May 1, 2021 at 1:19 PM
    #148
    barf

    barf Petter of Dogs

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    Nice “towing” brackets man.
     
    Hoyt Archer likes this.
  9. May 20, 2021 at 10:04 PM
    #149
    VTCAL

    VTCAL Well-Known Member

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    1/2 inch and better "proof steel" bolted to "Oh too thin" fabricated automotive sub structure is still. OH! Too Thin!.

    Scary the way cars have become.
     
    MJTH and Hoyt Archer like this.
  10. May 22, 2021 at 10:49 AM
    #150
    Hoyt Archer

    Hoyt Archer New Member

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    Final results

    20210521_123240.jpg
    20210521_123303.jpg
    20210521_154452.jpg
     
  11. May 22, 2021 at 11:12 AM
    #151
    stonylaroux

    stonylaroux Well-Known Member

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    Nice nipple rings.
     
  12. Oct 11, 2021 at 9:54 PM
    #152
    BrysonHart

    BrysonHart Member

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    a lot of people have shit put on their truck and have no idea what they are talking about
     
  13. Oct 11, 2021 at 9:55 PM
    #153
    BrysonHart

    BrysonHart Member

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    Lmao well he went out of his way to get arb shackles so that has to count for something right? :rofl:
     
  14. Oct 11, 2021 at 10:23 PM
    #154
    CalgaryQuicksand

    CalgaryQuicksand Active Member

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    Self-bodged spare tire carrier. Running boards. Poor man’s winch.
    I think there a couple of big things from a force perspective that people are forgetting here.

    The weight of the vehicle is not the force. There are multipliers based on the friction coefficient. It’s on wheels after all. Lol.

    The coefficient of friction depends on the angle of terrain and the medium stuck in.

    I’m too lazy go in depth of the formulas so I searched some recovery standards for a towing company and a recovery company. The forces are not near as high as people are assuming. Worse case scenario is 135% of the weight of the vehicle but as you can see other scenarios are much less.

    And another thing I think people are missing is assuming forces that are so much higher than the tow rating of the truck. You shouldn’t be trying to pull 10000lbs plus.

    I have no problem with using these demon shackles or the factory points or whatever. It’s for my recovery which as you can see is roughly the tow rating of the truck in the worst case scenario. And I won’t be trying to pull out any large one ton trucks or anything.

    Also, one thing we used to do when moving oil drilling rigs is when the force was too large we’d double line or rig it different. In this instance I’d connect to both shackles just to have an even higher ninny coefficient. That reminds me of another myth I’ve seen. We used chains all the time to drag loads off the bed trucks. No one died. High enough rating and don’t use it kinetic like. Put a mat or coveralls over it or something so it doesn’t fly if it breaks.

    I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is. I will find a way to test this real world.

    ABF1A388-CBCB-4CA5-BCB3-5B37E66D7FD9.jpgB8851B6A-8114-4F0B-946C-E837C4163012.jpg852E4773-EFB6-4BE1-8A1F-B3DF1994617F.jpg

    74173829-0113-4426-911B-D624F3BE1782.jpg

    4805A1CD-708C-4BB5-A6ED-2385FF633753.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    Ottawa river taco likes this.
  15. Oct 12, 2021 at 6:32 AM
    #155
    BrysonHart

    BrysonHart Member

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    Why would you be trying to pull out a large truck with your front shackles?

    I think they are for getting pulled, which if you are stuck, and a stronger truck pullin could put way more pressure on said point than your Tacoma could.

    Plus haven’t you read their website?

    yoyr coming in here with all this engineering jargon and bs

    read their site
    Literally all it says is based on how the truck will look
    Nothing about pulling with them
    It’s all cosmetic

    Guys just needs to save his money stop buying shit and get a bumper.
     
  16. Oct 12, 2021 at 7:34 AM
    #156
    JoeCOVA

    JoeCOVA IG @MightyJoeFlannel

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    Completely missed the boat man, probably when you slept through physics
     
  17. Oct 12, 2021 at 7:47 AM
    #157
    CalgaryQuicksand

    CalgaryQuicksand Active Member

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    Self-bodged spare tire carrier. Running boards. Poor man’s winch.
    My point is you guys are Trolling these guys that are getting these things from your supposed expert opinion. And you don’t know what the f you are talking about. Either scientifically or practically.

    I am a Engineering Technologist and CDL driver with all my experience primarily being in Offroad driving. So many so called experts on here that don’t have a clue. Of course there is a disclaimer on that site.

    It’s not Engineering jargon. It’s from a recovery company that actually knows something about recovery. Lol. But if you actually looked at it you’d realize the most likely scenario for most situations is between 1400-4000lbs force.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  18. Oct 12, 2021 at 8:01 AM
    #158
    JoeCOVA

    JoeCOVA IG @MightyJoeFlannel

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    Because you are talking backwards. You said the weight of the vehicle is not the force and then go on to say you shouldn't be pulling 10,000lbs which no one is intending to pull with these hooks. So lets go back to the beginning.

    For practical purposes the weight is used for mass when calculating Force F=ma average acceleration of cars is about 11 f/s/s and we can use a Tacoma GVWR of 5600 lbs that equals about 8-9KN of actual force. I'd love to see you convert Newtons to 135% of vehicle weight...General rule of thumb is that winches and other recovery devices need 1.5 -2x vehicle weight.

    We have seen on several occasions during recovery operations with both kinetic recovery and winches the cross member failing. This is why we see many companies providing frame and bumper reinforcement plates. Moreover the factory recovery hook is mounted with two bolts instead of one and in a location with additional steel reinforcement, the demon hooks do not mount in the same location and do not come with any reinforcement. The common sense question then applies, why did Toyota reinforce this section and double the bolts....
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  19. Oct 12, 2021 at 8:02 AM
    #159
    BrysonHart

    BrysonHart Member

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    Tell me when in the fuck recovering somebody in reverse is better?

    not supposed to reverse with a lot of strain on the engine…
     
  20. Oct 12, 2021 at 8:07 AM
    #160
    CalgaryQuicksand

    CalgaryQuicksand Active Member

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    Self-bodged spare tire carrier. Running boards. Poor man’s winch.
    I can easily convert that. It is 2023.28lbs. I use kN at work all the time. I destroy road sections for testing in a research group at the university. The average force I need to destroy a road section 6 inches in diameter and 2 inches thick at -35 C is 45-60kN.

    I mentioned 10000 pounds of pulling another vehicle because how else would you need something rated for 18000lbs.

    i want to see pictures of these failures. I keep hearing about these mythical failures and people before have asked for proof and no one has them.

    This situation is a box frame encased by a c channel mount. As flimsy as that looks it is what it is.

    135% is in mud and on a 30 degree incline which no one is ever likely to see. 150-200%. Nice to have maybe but not really necessary.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021

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