Didn't track order of valve lifters

So I am ready to do this feeler gauge test on the left side. I understand, according to my Haynes manual, the lifters have to be on the valves in some initial order and the camshafts and the timing chain need to be on. The manual says put piston 1 [I think the right side, the one closest to the front (radiator)] in TDC, then measure 8 specific valves (manual has a diagram which ones), then spin the crank 2/3 turn and do the same for another specific set of 8, then repeat one more time.

However, what's not clear in my situation, since I have the original lifters mixed up (within an engine side so I didn't mix left and right but I did mix within a side, as I used different tote bins for each side of the engine), is how to assign the original order, since different lifters have different sizes inscribed inside each lifter. Or does it even matter, i.e. can I set them randomly for the measurement ?

Here is the list of sizes on the left side:

- 39 x 3
- 46 x 2
- 38 x 2
- 45 x 1
- 43 x 1
- 41 x 1
- 40 x 1
- 37 x 1

I did lap the valves and replaced stem seals (making sure the exhaust and intake have appropriate seals) and tested the valves for leaks by pouring water in the runners on both sides while the head was sideways, all tight, no leaks.

 

I'd use them to play the lottery at this point. Good luck, op.

 

I made a separate thread out of my last question because I think it is an issue of its own.

 

Let the fun begin!

 

I have learned that pain and fun don't have to be necessarily mutually exclusive

 

Well you definitely live on the fringes.

 

Thanks but I don't know how to arrange the existing sets of shuffled lifters just to perform this measurement. See my new thread.

 

Even with a new set of lifters (which come in different sizes, see above), I would need to know which size goes under which cam. Or I would have to measure.

The thing that is currently blocking me from measuring is that I don't know which lifters to place under which cams to make sure I don't put too thick of a lifter in a wrong place and cause some kind of breakage. So I am stuck right now. Would it make sense to install the camshafts and the timing chain without lifters first, use some baseline shimming not installed like a lifter but slideable in between the valve stem and cam, and then feeler gauge to measure the gap ?

 

I suppose what you could do is

Assemble the valve train without buckets.

Measure the gap between the valve stem and the cam face.

Subtract the allowable or proper lash for the respective valve ( intake or exhaust ) from the measurement taken above.

Install a bucket with a thickness of the remaining measurement computed in the step above.

This should get you in the ballpark at a minimum. And could show you where all the buckets came from in the beginning.

With a little planning and forethought this should be doable.

 

Good in theory, I just don't know how you'd measure it. There isn't a lot of room to work in there for measuring.

Probably what I'd do, is take the thinnest one, and measure the lash with a feeler gauge between the base circle of the cam (point the lobe away from the lifter 180degrees) and the lifter - one at a time - just holding the cams (one at a time, in their respective places) firmly in place by hand.

Figure out how much the lash exceeds spec, and add that number to the lifter thickness number, should give you a starting point each valve, repeat another 11 times on each head, install all lifters on one head, and re-measure using toyota's guideline from the FSM. Keep in mind you may need to buy at least some new lifters, depending on what the lash was before you disassembled, and how heavily you lapped the valves and seats.

 

so are y'all saying do this bucket-less measurement without even mounting the chains ?

i think measuring just between the stem tips and cam lobes, without having a solid flat surface of the lifter underneath, will be a crapchute at best and very inaccurate.

so i actually just arbitrarily marked my lifters, recorded on a piece of paper which lifter thickness corresponds to which order #, and will mount the chains and do the proper test. I figured that last night when i was fiddling around... because if a lifter is too thick, it will just push the valve down a little deeper towards the piston but what really counts for the measurement's sake is the clearance when the cam lobe is up and not pushing the lifter. So a random order of lifters shouldn't matter for the measurement.

I haven't done it yet, just an idea from spending some time fiddling around and observing last night. let me know if you think this idea is bats**t or something

QUESTION: when i set the lifters back in, I did lube them with engine oil but they didn't go in very smoothly at first although they did go in all the way. does that mean i need to put a lot more oil ?

 

Measure all the lifters as accurately as possible. Then since you don't know what went where put them back in and record what size lifter went in which valve. Reinstall cams and attach chains so the engine timing doesn't get off. Turn the crank a couple times by hand and then follow the procedure posted earlier in the thread to measure the gaps. Then since you know the measurement of all the lifters you can determine which lifters need to be moved to which valves (or maybe replaced if necessary). Then remove the cams and move the lifters around, put it back together and remeasure everything again to make sure they're in spec.

I did something similar on a bike engine once which uses small circular shims that vary in size to adjust the gap.

It'll be tedious but you'll get it sorted out.

 

You don't have lifters. I assume you mean the buckets...

Yes it is going to be tedious... Very

 

whatever the preferred nomenclature is. another name is tappet.

possibly but keep in mind that my 3 iterations (due to inexperience) of valve job raised my patience level to that of a Buddhist monk:

lapping my valves and fitting them in and making sure they don't leak AND then once all the 24 were done and sealed tight I realized that i didn't clean the lapping compound on the inside of the valves so redid all 24 ... AND THEN AGAIN realized that i mixed the intake and exhaust valve stem seals (again, due to inexperience) and DID THE WHOLE THING ALL OVER AGAIN... so i think this, in comparison will be a cakewalk.

i may be a noob but i'm doing whatever it takes... keep doing until it's done right.

 

BTW, I have measured all the valve bucket gauges and clearances when they are in place (enumerated the buckets for keeping track of) and, using a program I wrote myself, I came up with an optimal rearrangement of differently gauged buckets across all the valves which will get each valve within the specified clearance, which is 0.15-0.25 mm for intake and 0.29-0.39 mm for exhaust, and also which will minimize the cumulative deviation of all the valve clearances from the ideal (which I assigned as the simple mean between the min and max, so 0.2 mm for intake and 0.34 for exhaust).

However, I understand that even with perfectly rearranged clearances, I may still be suffering consequences of not having the buckets in the original order as a matter of disrupting the "sympathetic wear", meaning parts over time changing shape to fit one another.

So, someone, whose credibility I am not completely confident in, suggested to lessen the impact of that by using thinner oil (10W30 instead of the usual 5W30) for about 500 mi until the new arrangement of buckets has settled in. I am just curious if this is a good approach. Please understand that I do not have access to a time machine and go back and record the original order of the buckets so I am looking to remedy the initial mistake.

 

I don't think a different weight of oil would have any sort impact on the new arrangement.

If anything, you could add some zinc. I think that'd be your safest bet if you're concerned about it.

 

How do I add zinc ?

 

http://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/engine-break-in-oil-additive-tb-zinc-plus

 

but you think if i get each valve clearance within the range, i should ultimately be okay even though they are not in the original order ?

 

I'd think so, but then again, have never been faced with that issue.