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do citizens have the right to film police ?

Discussion in 'Law Enforcement Officers' started by denali climber, May 1, 2013.

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  1. May 1, 2013 at 12:11 PM
    #21
    Nirvana

    Nirvana What's my motivation?

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    I think it's more disagreeable on the basis that was already noted. Would you want someone coming to your job and recording everything you do then analyzing it for flaws without reason? I understand the reasoning but it's going to make most people uneasy just knowing it's happening, maybe bring about those tingles on your neck.
     
  2. May 1, 2013 at 12:12 PM
    #22
    04tacomarob

    04tacomarob Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if I am correct but isn't all public filming legal and you need consent for voice?

    I've been video taped during switches of custody of my child and they wanted to say my body language was intimidating in some way haha. Either way the judge didn't even want to see it after it was known it was my property they filmed on and no consent to record our conversation.
     
  3. May 1, 2013 at 12:15 PM
    #23
    BamaToy1997

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    Actually if you do some research, the Federal Court of Appeals has upheld that it IS legal to record in public areas, to include police officers in the line of duty. See below excerpt, and the link:

    Excerpt from: http://peacefreedomprosperity.com/5...ideotaping-police-is-a-first-amendment-right/


    This shows that the federal court itself has upheld a private citizen's right to videotape (Including audio) of a police officer in the line of duty. ALSO note that the person that the police were initially investigating was a minor. A specific excerpt from their findings:

     
  4. May 1, 2013 at 12:17 PM
    #24
    Xaks

    Xaks Cranky & often armed sysadmin

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    The inclusion of the point that a minor was involved is the part that really surprises me. I'd have thought that little tidbit would trump...well, I guess not.

    *shrug*
     
  5. May 1, 2013 at 12:19 PM
    #25
    bldegle2

    bldegle2 OldPhart

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    :spy:The police are a public entity, there to serve and protect the public on public and private properties, their salaries are paid from the local tax base, in essence, the local citizens are their boss, in a loose sense...sworn to protect and serve...

    Taking a video of an 'incident' or confrontation is in many cases, the only real evidence in a he said, they said scenario....

    Besides, if the officers are not doing anything wrong, they should welcome the vids as backup, ahhhhh...maybe that is why they want to squash anyone who films them...:laser:
     
  6. May 1, 2013 at 12:21 PM
    #26
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    If you are on the job in a private building, then yes, you are protected unless the owner of the building and/or company give consent. If you are on the job outside, in the public area, then no, you are not protected from being taped.

    audio recording is something that is a fine line as argued. However as mentioned above, the federal court of appeals has stated that video taping, to include audio, is supported by the fourth amendment. Now this is only in public. The reason the judge did not want to see the video you mentioned was of course as you had disclosed, it was done on YOUR personal property, without your consent.
     
  7. May 1, 2013 at 12:28 PM
    #27
    Front sight

    Front sight Well-Known Member

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  8. May 1, 2013 at 12:28 PM
    #28
    4lo

    4lo Well-Known Member

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    There are very few places that you need permission to shoot a photo or video...Hospitals, Gov Building etc. Yet you are free to shoot whomever and whatever you want (even if they are in any of these off limit places) if you are shooting from a public location and not disrupting anyone else.
    NPPA and ASMP outline a code of ethics for shooting the laws to abide by:
    [FONT=verdana,helvetica,arial]The Legal Stuff

    I.Before we get started here, we have to point out that even though we’re smart and awesome and devastatingly attractive, we’re not lawyers. None of this should be construed as legal advice. If you have a legal issue, get in touch with a lawyer. Much of this information was gleaned from attorney Bert P. Krages‘ website, so we’ll go ahead and recommend him.
    The Ten Legal Commandments of Photography

    I. Anyone in a public place can take pictures of anything they want. Public places include parks, sidewalks, malls, etc. Malls? Yeah. Even though it’s technically private property, being open to the public makes it public space.
    II. If you are on public property, you can take pictures of private property. If a building, for example, is visible from the sidewalk, it’s fair game.
    III. If you are on private property and are asked not to take pictures, you are obligated to honor that request. This includes posted signs.
    IV. Sensitive government buildings (military bases, nuclear facilities) can prohibit photography if it is deemed a threat to national security.
    V. People can be photographed if they are in public (without their consent) unless they have secluded themselves and can expect a reasonable degree of privacy. Kids swimming in a fountain? Okay. Somebody entering their PIN at the ATM? Not okay.
    VI. The following can almost always be photographed from public places, despite popular opinion:

    • accident & fire scenes, criminal activities
    • bridges & other infrastructure, transportation facilities (i.e. airports)
    • industrial facilities, Superfund sites
    • public utilities, residential & commercial buildings
    • children, celebrities, law enforcement officers
    • UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, Chuck Norris
    VII. Although “security” is often given as the reason somebody doesn’t want you to take photos, it’s rarely valid. Taking a photo of a publicly visible subject does not constitute terrorism, nor does it infringe on a company’s trade secrets.
    VIII. If you are challenged, you do not have to explain why you are taking pictures, nor to you have to disclose your identity (except in some cases when questioned by a law enforcement officer.)
    IX. Private parties have very limited rights to detain you against your will, and can be subject to legal action if they harass you.
    X. If someone tries to confiscate your camera and/or film, you don’t have to give it to them. If they take it by force or threaten you, they can be liable for things like theft and coercion. Even law enforcement officers need a court order.
    [/FONT]
     
  9. May 1, 2013 at 12:34 PM
    #29
    Front sight

    Front sight Well-Known Member

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    He pled out.
     
  10. May 1, 2013 at 12:36 PM
    #30
    Fightnfire

    Fightnfire Recklessly tired

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    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  11. May 1, 2013 at 12:42 PM
    #31
    4lo

    4lo Well-Known Member

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    With all that said, be smart and prudent. I almost got blasted in Ft Collins a few years ago shooting an arrest at night of a super belligerent college student. I was shooting a super fast 50mm 1.4 sans flash and forgot the red eye was on. Basically I was shooting small red flashes of light from my truck towards the 4-5 officers trying to wrangle that effed up little s--t. Needless to say, they were NOT stoked and I was greeted at gun point. Innocent mistake but don't point little red laser at folks with guns.
     
  12. May 1, 2013 at 12:54 PM
    #32
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    The topic at hand is FILMING police, not photography. Photography does have a much more lenient allowability.

     
  13. May 1, 2013 at 1:07 PM
    #33
    4lo

    4lo Well-Known Member

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  14. May 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM
    #34
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Actually until VERY recently, they did not. Photography and film were held under different light due to the older state laws saying you could film, but not record audio, but photography had no limits at all.
     
  15. May 1, 2013 at 1:49 PM
    #35
    SoCaltaco65

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    100% right

    likewise this also extends to the public, not just a LEO.
     
  16. May 1, 2013 at 2:11 PM
    #36
    Front sight

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    F.S.934.03 Interception and disclosure of wire, oral, or electronic communications prohibited.—

    (1) Except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter, any person who:(a) Intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept any wire, oral, or electronic communication;
    (b) Intentionally uses, endeavors to use, or procures any other person to use or endeavor to use any electronic, mechanical, or other device to intercept any oral communication when:1. Such device is affixed to, or otherwise transmits a signal through, a wire, cable, or other like connection used in wire communication; or
    2. Such device transmits communications by radio or interferes with the transmission of such communication;

    (c) Intentionally discloses, or endeavors to disclose, to any other person the contents of any wire, oral, or electronic communication, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, oral, or electronic communication in violation of this subsection;
    (d) Intentionally uses, or endeavors to use, the contents of any wire, oral, or electronic communication, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, oral, or electronic communication in violation of this subsection; or
    (e) Intentionally discloses, or endeavors to disclose, to any other person the contents of any wire, oral, or electronic communication intercepted by means authorized by subparagraph (2)(a)2., paragraph (2)(b), paragraph (2)(c), s. 934.07, or s. 934.09 when that person knows or has reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of such a communication in connection with a criminal investigation, has obtained or received the information in connection with a criminal investigation, and intends to improperly obstruct, impede, or interfere with a duly authorized criminal investigation;
    shall be punished as provided in subsection (4).


    It is my understanding that we can be recorded in our duties in public. Arrests, traffic stops, general public contact, driving, etc. But when I pull someone to the side and do my investigation, it's a bit different being that what they say might be entered as evidence. As far as me being in public doing it, well if I'm around 20 people then yes, I have no expectation of privacy and expect my conversation to be overheard. When I pull the person away from everyone else and begin my criminal investigation that is when things are different. I move them away and expect a "reasonable expectation of privacy" while I conduct the criminal investigation.
     
  17. May 1, 2013 at 2:13 PM
    #37
    4lo

    4lo Well-Known Member

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    If you are in public, you do not have what is called a "reasonable expectation of privacy". This means that you can be put on TV without your consent. HOWEVER - if you are filmed/videoed by a cameraman doing a show which will later be sold for profit and aired - they MUST obtain a signed "release" from each person that appears in the film/video.
     
  18. May 1, 2013 at 2:24 PM
    #38
    BamaToy1997

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    Thanks. The copy of the same statute I had posted, but with more detailed information. Now we are getting somewhere. I would however argue that just because I was sitting there recording what was going on does not constitute proof that I was going to "Intentionally disclose, or endeavor to disclose" what I was recording. Perhaps I was going to record it for my own viewing pleasure in the future, then erase it? Funny thing about laws, it is all about how it is interpreted by lawyers, judges, and a jury. I bet you I could find me a good lawyer like the guy above in my previous post and win a case here, as long as I never disclosed the video, which if I were arrested and the recording confiscated I would not have been able to do.

    The section in (e) numbered as 934.09 also states at the end "knows or has reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of such a communication in connection with a criminal investigation, has obtained or received the information in connection with a criminal investigation, and intends to improperly obstruct, impede, or interfere with a duly authorized criminal investigation;
    shall be punished as provided in subsection (4)."

    The officer would have to prove that I INTENDED to obstruct his investigation. Not going to happen. Intent is one of the most difficult actions to prove. when an act is is session. I would say that I would have a 99% probability of winning if I had a good lawyer, and I still think a better than 75% chance of winning when I made sure it went to trial and I had peers who truly love their 4th amendment rights, which most citizens do.

    Actually now that I think about it, I would say 100% chance of winning period, since the federal appeals court upheld the case of the guy above! I would simply cite that case when I went to court, and then proceeded to sue like he did. lol.
     
  19. May 1, 2013 at 2:35 PM
    #39
    denali climber

    denali climber [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Lets remember that state laws are often unconstitutional and in violation of 1st Amendment protections.
     
  20. May 1, 2013 at 2:52 PM
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    jmarquez808

    jmarquez808 Large Member

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    i wish i filmed the cops who let a guy hit me then bashed me on the head with knee strikes when i wouldnt agree to be handcuffed. Im sorry to any officers who actually do their jobs and arnt corrupt but my experience with the honolulu police department, they are some of the worst people here, liars, law breakers, drug users/sellers, and partaking in human trafficking like juicy bars, also they have ties in a lot of underground bullshit going on plus they will protect guys who are criminals that are friends and family. Also many accounts from my own girlfriend and other women of blatant sexual harrassmant and nasty physical taunting. But it always comes down to your word against theirs. My next encounter with police will be filmed. This is why i say Screw HPD
     
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