Do you Care if James Holmes is "Insane"

Imagine if it was your son or daughter who got shot an killed, Imagine if it was your mother or father. Now tell me how you feel about the mental insanity plea. Yah i agree that we can learn from him but honestly there are a lot of people that want to watch him slowly and painfully die. this topic is very hard to discuss without going into religion and politics.

 

The bolded text is incorrect. There have been 18 cases in the United States where someone was proven INNOCENT of a murder case. See below:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/The_Innocent_and_the_Death_Penalty.php

Some of them were actually on death row. Now I am not saying at ALL that this man is innocent. Personally I think he is guilty as hell, and that there is no way he can prove any type of innocence at all. However I do think that he HAD to have some kind of mental defect to do what he did. Insane? Not for me to decide. I am not a professional in that field. But I do not see how any sane person could do what he did. Do I think he deserves a life of luxury at taxpayers expense? No, but I do think he needs to be studied. If it costs millions and millions of tax dollars to eventually find a way to save ONE human life, than it is worth it to me. Again, my opinion, and I have a right to have said opinion.

If it was my son, daughter, mom or dad shot, would I be pissed? Yes. Angry at the person? Hell yeah. I'm not going to sit here and say for one second that I wouldn't be. Would I want them put to death? If the sentence is such, I will shed but a single tear for their soul. However I would not be pissed or angry at the justice system if during the trial they were deemed insane and thus sentenced to life in a mental institute for study. Equal rights is what our country is founded on.

I spent 8 years in the Marines for them to have that right. Not because I was trying to get money for an education, or learn a trade for a future civilian life. I served because it is what I wanted to do. Defend your right, and everyone's right to be treated equally and fairly. See, unlike some people in this country, I actually love my country. I would die for my country, and I would support this country, and it's people. If called on today, I would don the uniform proudly, grab my rifle, and RUN back onto the combat field. We are all given the right to a fair trial. No one person should be given the exception in EITHER direction. If we do, then what else do we lose? The United States is not based on equal rights to those we want to give them to. It is based on equal rights to EVERYONE.

 

I'll say this: (deep breath)

12 years ago I was 20 years old and thought as most 20 year old guys think. Counselors are for pu**ies and people with depression need to toughen up and go outside. Smile every once in a while.

Then I met a beautiful girl and fell in love.

7 years later that girl was my wife and mother of my two children, one at the time, and I watched her collapse. She had seen a few counselors here and there throughout the years and was usually prescribed some sort of depression medication. For the first few years I took the "toughen up approach." But, as I sat back and watched more and more and came to understand that during certain times, days or weeks, this was not in any way shape or form the person I fell in love with. She was completely different person who did not in any way shape or form care about me, her children, or any other member of her family. She didn't care about herself and thus couldn't understand how she could affect negatively other people.

I became more involved and read a lot of books on mental health and talked to some counselors and DR's myself to get their opinion. It became pretty clear that my wife had bi-polar (manic depression) and that childbirth had thrown her into a rather destructive cycle. Bi-polar can be worsened or heightened by changes ... seasons, weather or life altering changes ie: pregnancy and childbirth.

Bi-polar comes in all shapes and flavors but it usually has somewhat of a consistent cycle. That cycle can vary from person to person. Some people cycle quarterly on average, some monthly, and some more .. weekly or daily. They call those people rapid-cycling manic depressants.

Bi-Polar has three phases: Depression, Normal and Manic. Most people 5+ years ago would be diagnosed as depressed and sent away with some sort of an anti-depression medication. Why? Because our society rewards the normal ... and the manic.. but casts out the depressed. However, for a bi-polar person the manic phase is by FAR the most destructive phase. And, anti-depressants alone, can make the manic cycle much worse. Fact: The majority of teen suicides occur during a manic phase, not during a depression phase. The majority of people who go off the "deep end" into a drug or alcohol binge do so during a manic phase, not during a depression phase.

Imagine a wave. Every wave cycle has a crest and a trough. Consider the crest the manic phase and trough depression. Somewhere in the middle is normal. The crest of the wave is extremely destructive, the trough is a serene quiet let's get ready for the next crest. An anti-depressant raises the mood in a person, yay, except in a bi-polar person it also raises the crest. It makes the top end, manic cycle, worse. Because it isn't smart enough to know when a person is depressed and only work then .. it works all the time regardless of the current mood cycle.

So, to successfully treat a bi-polar person three things MUST be had. Medications, Counseling and a strong support system. Medications break down like this: 1 x anti depressant, 1 x anti psychotic, 1 x mood stabilizer. You cut the low off, you cut the high off and you try to keep it in the middle.

5 months after my first child was born I found myself pretty much a single dad, on a single income, trying to manage a tornado. That was the worst year of my life. Somewhere in the middle of that I vowed to never judge a person again based off of things I am ignorant about. My wife was very willing to walk away from me and her children. (for the record, I didn't care about "me" in this. It was all about her and the kids) She was willing to cast anything and everything aside because a bi-polar person is wired differently and during times of extreme manic phases ... which can last days or weeks .. does not comprehend normal things normal people understand. My wife knew right from wrong but was numb to the consequences. You'll never see your kids again .. "I don't care." The right person, in the right or wrong set of circumstances is possible of anything.

Fast forward 4 years and I'm married still, to the same girl and now have two boys ages 4.5 and 2.5. The second pregnancy and birth went smooth as I learned and was prepared for it. For the last 4 years my wife has been stable and very very normal. It takes more courage on her part than mine in all honesty. Waking up every day knowing you have a disease that there is no cure for must suck. Weekly counseling sessions, pills that make you feel like shit etc.

Especially when the society you live in doesn't understand or worse accept or at least acknowledge your disease. Why? Because they can't see it.

This thread and site is full of 20 year old guys. Obviously, age is irrelevant. You get the point. I understand people who don't know or who don't get it. They might learn in their life they might not. But for those of you who without any knowledge cast out opinions or false statements .. you are ignorant and part of the problem.

I don't give a fuck about James Holmes, he's not my problem. But he is our country's and our societies problems. I don't care whether they kill him or not. I care that we open our eyes and start treating what caused James Holmes to get to this point. A well documented mental health issue that we ignored.

Welcome to the consequence of your ignorance and inaction.

 

Okay, I've had my say, Bill. Not much more I can say about keeping murderers alive to study in some vane quest for prevention (after decades, even centuries or more, of such study, entirely futile). And I've already discussed legal insanity (inability to distinguish right from wrong - the prime requirement for that defense in a criminal trial) versus the seemingly crazy act of murder or acts of a murderer. And, despite what the liberals at the Innocence Project (opposed to the death penalty) have to say, I believe my comments about DNA testing are accurate as well. Thus, unless something new is added, I'll let all that go with what I've already said.

 

Wow. Thanks for sharing, brother. Like I said .. you sounded like someone who'd been through it. I work with a number of guys who to one degree or another suffer from various depression, anxiety and/or disassociative disorders. Most of them are brilliant. But most of them feel totally cut off and alone. It doesn't have to be this way.



You're right .. they're wired differently .. gifted differently. But modern American society finds no room for them. I often compare societies to rivers:

• The wide and deep river accomodates all varieties of people - left, right, and mid brain, artist and poet as much as engineer and scientist. It values well-rounded generalists. It leaves room for (and places high value) on philosophy and leisure and deep reflective thinking. It's not obsessed with progress at the expense of understanding. It is calmer, easier to navigate, and more forgiving. But it is slower moving.
• But when the river narrows and shallows, it speeds up. It's fast and difficult to navigate, and those that can't keep up get spit up on shore and left behind. These are materialist societies hell bent on progress and future. Technological advancement and scientific understanding is king. Deep thinkers can't keep pace, and find it extremely difficult to fit in. Generalists are shunned in favor of specialists. Right brain takes a back seat to left. The arts are devalued. To borrow from Jeff Goldblum's character in Jurassic Park, this a society where the dominant question is "can we?". We don't often ask "should we?".

And 21st century America is one of the fastest moving "rivers" in the history of history. Sure, our technology and scientific advancement is AMAZING. But it's coming at the great expense of a huge proportion of our society that is not wired for fast and narrow. Scientific materialism dominates to the great exclusion of the deep and wide.

And what are the consequences of this? America not only leads in technological advancement .. it also leads in depression and anxiety disorders, suicides and substance abuse. We are a ridiculously lonely people. We are now the most overworked nation in the world (surpassing Japan around 2006, with an average workweek of 48 hours) with less leisure time than most of the rest of the world, regardless of wealth. We don't take time off to "relax". We take time off to "blow off steam". And the economic disparity between the rich and poor (and the vaporization of the middle class) is growing faster and wider than any other industrialized nation in the world. How's that all working out for us?

I've spent half my life studying this. And I spend my days as a "shorewalker" looking for the shut-ins and "left behinds" kicked up on the shore of our fast moving "river" and left to die like fish out of water. Ridiculously brilliant, artistic, deep thinking & feeling people who just can't keep pace because they're wired differently. And they feel like shit because of it. They're made to feel like failures ... which is why they don't ask for help either, and any underlying mental illness (like any untreated illness) festers because of it. These are people in grief. People who come to hate themselves for not being able to keep up .. "children" who feel left behind in a world where "no child left behind" means "but only if you excel in math and science .. otherwise to hell with you." A huge portion of what I do is deal with grief .. but even this is extremely difficult to do when the dominant society is deathly afraid of the grief process, sweeps it all under the rug, and preaches "get over it and get back to work." Again .. how's that working out for all of us?

I appreciate you standing by your wife, my friend. And I appreciate you educating yourself on the nature of her illness .. but at the same time seeing her unique brilliance. I don't know how James Holmes would have turned out had he had better care. Unfortunately much of our mental health system rarely takes time to pause for a deep breath either. "Treat 'em and street 'em" is pretty common, and follow up is not a priority .. which is a major problem in and of itself. A hyper-competitive PhD program in neurosciences was probably not the best choice for him. Some of our highest IQs also suffer from low EQs (emotional quotients) and the higher the stakes, the more prone they are to coming apart.

Again, back to the water analogies if you and I have to cover 100 yards, and you're running in 6 inches of water while I'm running 2 feet deep, who's going to get there first? You of course. But I'll have the deeper experience. Sadly "depth" is one thing our society has little tolerance for anymore, and if you try to force the deep thinker to come to the surface and keep up, it's like forcing the deep sea diver to quickly come to the surface: You get the bends. And it fucks you up.

Anyway, it's great to "meet" you my friend. Best of luck on your journey.

 

Great post

 

wow theres a lot of good reading in this thread. I just hope the justice system is fair to the families and the defendants rights.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/19/ohio-school-shooting-chardon/1999369/

This Kid had a list of "Mental Issues" and he got 3 life sentences.. Only cause he was 17 at the time and wasnt eligable for death penalty.. but with his attitude he will die in jail

 

I honestly hope that they get the biggest black dude in that jail to split open this kids intestines with his phallus, and much more.

 

What the fuck!?!?! HE turned around to the families while wearing that shirt and said this:
"The hand that pulls the trigger that killed your sons now masturbates to the memory," he said, then he cursed at and raised his middle finger toward the victims' relatives.




I'm honestly completely at a loss of what to think here.

 

This stuff really annoys me...in Canada, he would be treated better than the general population.

Trash like this should get treatment that makes them beg for death. Zero tolerance for murderers, rapists ECT.

 

I can 100% tell you that if he murdered my son and said that to my face no cop in that room would stop me from attempting everything i could to murder him myself.

 

How so

 

Lynched. Quartered. Strung up. Accident.... As long as the jobs don't I don't care how it happens but there's a special place in hell for him.

 

FTFY

 

Hes a cold ass honkey! thats all he rolls

 

LOL

 

LOL sometimes my fingers do the walking for me. Meant to say thats HOW he rolls.

 

So it is a vane quest? Wow. Such lack of faith is disturbing. I would think any quest that is in search of a way to prevent a crime such as this would be worth every penny. But again, that is my opinion, and you obviously disagree. You have that right as well. I think what is really funny is that when I learned about the group called the Innocence Project, I didn't look to see if they were liberal or conservative. I could care less if they were either, or centerlined. It doesn't matter to me, as long as the ultimate goal is the truth. Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing? I have two standings of opinion on the death penalty myself. I find it difficult to shed a tear for some of those put to death for some very heinous crimes, yet my faith tells me that I have no right to take another persons life for any reason. Oh it has been a conflict for me when I served in the military, and no, I would not have any hesitation in taking another life to save my own, or another, but I do feel the conflict in my faith in my religion.

Obviously neither of us will sway the other, so I agree, we shall leave this point as rivals, but friends.

 

i think the big guy upstairs will arrange exactly where he needs to be. I believe there could be a butterfly effect with some of the things that may happen to him.