Do you use premium gas?

Huh????

 

We understand, you do eat glue after all.

 

Hmm, I really brought that on myself

 

Can we combine them?

E15 is harder on oil but is 88 octane. Should I use 88 octane E15, but change the oil more often than the 10,000?

 

I've played around with this a lot. My company pays for my gas so...

I'm at 14k miles and I can tell you that my truck with the 6mt runs the best (23-24mpg) with 89 octane from Chevron.

It runs real nice on 93 octane but it doesnt last as long as 89. 20-21 mpg

And then 90 octane non ethanol feels faster but still just gets 20-21 mpg

I even tried mixing 93 and 90 non ethanol and still got 20-21 mpg. This felt the fastest but I dont have a dyno.

To be honest I'm really confused as to how it gets the best mileage with 89 but thats what it does.

I think the manual saying 87 is just for marketing. After running the upper tiers of fuel, I think it runs like absolute shit on 87.

And there's dyno results to prove that!

I dont hyper mile or even really care what it gets for mpg since I dont pay for the fuel but it would seem to me that the engine is somehow extracting more power from 89 octane considering it uses the least of it.

Which doesnt make any sense to me considering it has 11:1 compression and a 15psi turbo.

 

Random point: I didn't realize until today there was an actual Top Tier station finder app. I had been using GasBuddy, but it is hard to remember who is and isn't Top Tier fuel when I'm out of town.

TOP TIER™ Station Finder App - TOP TIER™

 

Huh!?! Well, whadaya know. I had no idea that existed, top tier I knew, but not the app. Thanks! I’m still researching, waiting for my ‘25 to be delivered. I only ordered a week ago, so should get a ‘25 when delivered.

 

I'm almost tempted to try what I did in my '17 GTI. I put in like 4-5 gallons of E85 and the rest 93. That thing ran SMOOTH on that combination. E85 is readily available around here. I did do the whole E15 thing for a couple tanks, didn't really notice anything. I change my oil around 4-5K (6mo intervals) so I wouldn't have to worry about fuel dilution.

 

I haven't read the owner's manual for a 4th gen. But most vehicles owner's manuals do not say "Use 87 Octane fuel". Most say " Use at least 87 octane fuel". That means that in high altitude areas where 85 octane is sold as regular you should still use "At least 87 octane".

Many owners' manuals state that 87 octane is fine, but you'll get better performance using higher octane fuel. I know that Ford specifies that you should always use 91 octane in their turbo engines if you're towing. 87 is fine otherwise. The turbo from Toyota is probably similar.

A few of years ago I started using premium in all of my vehicles, did so for about a year. You don't notice any difference with just one tank. It takes until about the 3rd fill-up using only premium before you have only premium fuel in your tank plus it takes some time for the computer to adjust to the different fuel.

There was no difference in fuel mileage to help offset the higher fuel prices. But there was a small, but noticeable boost in power. Mostly noticeable when towing. And this was from a 2007 Tacoma and a 2014 F150 with the 5.0 V8. Pulling the same trailers on the same roads the trucks were able to stay in higher gears more often with premium fuel.

I was paying about 30-40 cents more per gallon and at that price felt the gains were worth it. But when gas hit $5/gallon for regular and premium was closer to $6 I went back to using 87 octane. At that price it wasn't worth the cost to me.

That is not recommended. You should avoid mixing E85 and E10. You should wait until you're near empty before filling up with E85 and stay with it. It is not a good idea to switch back and forth.

 

Premium and Mid Grade are awesome. Awesome for oil company profits. I fully support folks buying premium; oil companies have to make money somewhere. Thanks in advance for subsidizing my fuel costs. I'll take the cheapest stuff at the pump, everytime.

 

My vehicles the mid grade and premium I never noticed much difference in MPG or more power., Except it is tough on pocket book.
the ethanol free works best.

 

When ever I get around to test driving a 4G I'm going to see if the salesperson will let me put some nitro methane in the tank.

 

91

 

The Dyno tests show nothing for 87 octane. They didn't run that test. 85 != 87 and cannot be considered comparable. The dealership should be ripped for filling the tank with 85 knowing full well that was below Toyota's spec for the vehicle. The higher elevation excuse is invalid on fuel injected engines. It only applied to carbureted engines of old.

straight from the EPA's website:

The sale of 85 octane fuel was originally allowed in high-elevation regions—where the barometric pressure is lower—because it was cheaper and because most carbureted engines tolerated it fairly well. This is not true for modern gasoline engines. So, unless you have an older vehicle with a carbureted engine, you should use the manufacturer-recommended fuel for your vehicle, even where 85 octane fuel is available.

 

85 should just go away. Its usefulness has ended.

 

I'm running E15 in all my trucks to include the 2024.
I have 125,000 miles on a 3rd gen that's run beautifully and another 120,000 in a 2nd gen.
I under the belief that the manufacturer is building and tuning the machine to use a specific fuel.
IMO, if it says it can run on 87, then that's what I'm putting in it. Isn't that the whole reason manufacturers state when to use a higher grade or premium?

 

By the way Top Tier is a pay-to-play brand licensing racket, doesn't mean much nowadays. In the US the major brands still pay into it. In Canada some big brands like Esso (Exxon) and Petro Canada (which sells Ultra 94) have stopped paying into it: https://forums.redflagdeals.com/pet...s-no-longer-designated-top-tier-fuel-2534548/

 

The T24 in the Tacoma absolutely is tuned for using 87, yes. I guess its very similar A24 cousins are, too, in other Toyotas. I’m told the ones they put in some Lexuses call for 89. It may be to support the higher power output setting. It may be to make the car seem more “special” to their more well heeled owners. Engines have been tuned that way since basically forever. A manufacturer that tunes an engine for fuel worse than is commonly available is leaving power and economy on the table. One that designs it for fuel its customers can’t get won’t sell any engines.

Modern engines are very adaptive, with practically infinitely variable ignition timing, variable cam advance and valve lift, turbochargers with electronically controlled wastegates. Nissan even came up with a variable compression system that can change the length of the connecting rods on the fly. All that adds up to engines that can adjust to run on most anything. This one happens to have targeted 87. It runs as advertised on it. It may run better — make more power than rated for, run more efficiently than found during testing — on higher grade fuel. It’s up to you to determine if spending more on “better” fuel is worth it to you. Older, less adaptive engines rarely got any benefit from better fuel unless there was something wrong with them, so it was usually a waste. Now? Try it out yourself and do the math.

As for ethanol content, they want you to stay at or below 15% ethanol content because ethanol is corrosive and hygroscopic. It eats seals and hoses not specifically designed to tolerate it — read “more expensive” — and absorbs water, which can play havoc with the combustion process. Ethanol is actually very stable; E85 is equivalent to roughly 100 octane gasoline. It’s one of the reasons they add it to most gasolines. They get a more stable mix without having to add as many expensive stabilizers. It also burns very cleanly, particularly during engine warmup, making it friendlier for the environment during the winter. Finally, due to government subsidies, it’s very cheap.

 

Saving 0.30 cents a gallon on even 87 is certainly a consideration for me. I see what you're saying about adding a higher premium fuel and after this tank or the next runs down, I'll try it because now I'm curious if the engine management system does alter the maps for "better performance or economy" . As you say, the older stuff couldn't do it but the new should have that capability.
Thanks for the info, peaked my interests and further understanding of the new stuff!
Have you tried the premium in a new toyota with noticeable changes?

 

I use premium in the winter because I don’t drive a lot in the winter, a tank can last more than a month, longer than ethanol shelf life in gas.

In the summer, I burn a tank a week, so don’t care will sometimes put regular.

I can’t say I noticed a performance difference, but I don’t race.