Does anybody know the business story behind the rust?

We all love the rust, many blessings on the rust! No one is debating that. Many of us got essentially brand new frames on trucks, trucks that should now last forever! Yet..

Does anybody know the true story behind the rusted frames though? Was it a company manufacturing issue? Why was it never addressed over so many years? What fallout did that have?

Feels like there's a juicy story there somewhere.

 

I feel it's going to be all theory at this point as I don't think anyone on the forum has access to Toyota design specs and material specs.
If Toyota would change anything on the frame or manufacturing process, it would be like admitting you're wrong about the your design and manufacturing process. The frame may not be made by Toyota, but Toyota controls the design, material specs, and to some point, the manufacturing process.
Earlier today my neighbor was out doing some engine work on his '09 Ram 5.7, and while I was talking to him I took a look at his frame, I'll tell ya, it looks pretty good for not having anything done to it, but then again it's a different vehicle, different manufacture and it has 250,000 miles on it.
I wish my 2010 frame looked that clean. Even with Fluid Film, Woolwax, and Eastwood Amber rust preventive on my frame, his looks better. My opinion, is frames should be galvanized like un-body frames are.

 

Not sure entirely how accurate this is, but a good watch FWIW. Talks more about the old "pickup" before it was the tacoma, but maybe the principal is the same?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBN3IuVCxl8

 

I was amazed that the first gen frames rusted out - I got 1.5 book for that one - put it into a 2nd gen - that frame rusted and got replaced - for all I know the third gen frames are no good - so it costs many millions $$ and they don't correct it - don't make no sense.

 

Its their coating from the factory... or lack there of.

My old 2001 chevy's frame looked nasty from the factory due to its real waxy coating, but never a spec of rust. Living in So Cal isnt hard on the frames and ill get bored n tired of my 2013 taco at 500k miles before i even consider thinking about having rust problems, that stated there def is some surface rust here n there just due to the moisture in the air and some snowy / rain driving.

 

I was shocked at how rusty the frame was on my 09. My 04 Ranger was PRISTINE in comparison, and both trucks lived in the same climate. The funny thing is that when it went in for under coating, the techs said it was in better condition than most.

 

Where I'm from, all frames from all brands rust. Toyota, Nissan, Jeep... And the frame replacement campaign wasn't as costly to Toyota as you might think, because only 2.5% of Tacomas are kept beyond 200k miles: https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study . Figure half are in southern states without road salt.

 

I’ve wondered about what the real story is as well.

To add to the weirdness, the 4Runner frames which are made in Japan don’t rust nearly as much. Why would they be so much better than a Taco frame?

 

Just google Tacoma Dana frames and read what they claim the 1st gen issue was. My own personal guess is the precedent that was set with the 1st gen recall, then followed Toyota into its 2nd and 3rd gen where the frame coat is just thin and prone to rust starting. You get a few rock chips and now it’s begun.

4Runners don’t fare any better. That’s just bias when people somehow think the stuff coming out of Japan is coated different than what’s coming out of the US plants. Why? Because 4Runners never got a recall while the Tacoma/Tundra/Sequioa all did. All rusts the same. The only difference with the 120 chassis is its boxed so you can’t see the rust going on inside as readily. I’ve looked at enough 120 frames to realize they still rust, and it can be bad. The C-channel frame on the 2nd gen Tacomas with its subpar frame coat didn’t help with rust though. Made a prime breeding ground for rust between the channels in regions near the cats/exhaust where warmth accelerates the process.

The real “juicy” story is why do people buy a Toyota, knowing that the older Tacomas had recalls, and still not put a rust protectant on the frame. I think the whiny finger pointers who don’t check their frame until 10 years after purchase just like playing victim.

 

Just depends how it was taken care of. I know someone who's 2010 Colorado looks cleaner than my 2017 Tacoma. But then again he's older and takes care of his vehicles. My 2008 Canyon, on the other hand, didn't have a ton of body rust showing (but it was definitely starting), but the frame and underbody was pretty rough. Partly due to our winters and partly due to the undercoating the dealership put on.

My 2017 seems to have some surface rust at the welds and a bit of deeper rust near the tow hitch. Honestly, not any worse than I'd expect for a vehicle that has spent its entire life in CT and MI.

As for the frame rust story, I've heard many versions. Everything from the materials used in the 1st and 2nd gen frames, to improper surface prep, especially around the welds, to using a thin coating of protection. To me, at least on my 2017, the surface rust seems to be below the protective layer, so I don't think that has a ton to do with it. I just sprayed Woolwax up there, so we'll see what happens. Although included in the recall, I have yet to hear of a 3rd gen with a serious rust issue, let alone needing replacing.

 

Never did hear who made the steel for the frames although the Now gone Dana Corp manufactured the frames .

I did Haul Coils in to Dana Reading Pa plant at the time they made frames for Kenworth I also know for Ford assembly plant in Saint Paul Mn.

Every Coil had paper work shipped with the coil of the complete specs.

I still gotta think Industrial Sabotage plus how bad the Liquid Brine effected things

 

Was watching a couple videos on YouTube and saw this one and the problems with undercoating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXvl9nt57Kg&t=445s

I had my frame inspected but still have to bring it in to the get the frame spray done by Toyota.
My appointment keeps getting pushed back. I think I'll stop by today and see what's up.

 

Yeah, rubberized undercoating just basically seals in the flavor and let's it marinate lol. Cosmoline and Lanolin products aren't quite the same though. Toyota uses CRC Cosmoline for their dealership treatment, I believe.

 

I always thought that the development and use in ice melting chemicals also played a major role in how quickly these frames have been rusting. That stuff seams to get in every nook and cranny and promote rust very quickly compared to just rock salt.

 

I owned an 87, 90 and 95 toyota pickup (pre Tacoma) all made in Japan. Frames were not issue but boy did bodies rust out!
My 2006 2GEN I traded before frame got real bad. I'm sure that sucker got frame swapped.
My 2013, I undercoated before leaving the dealer lot. It never gets parked in a heated garage in Winter. I'm in Vermont fwiw. After 7 yrs frame looks good & just had CRC treatment to extend the frame warranty. Thanks Toyota!
Pics of bought back Tacoma's waiting their demise on my dealer lot back in 2007.


2006 rust in 2009

My 1995 new

My 1995 in 2008

 

My 1998 GMC Sonoma frame looked better then most 2010-12 Taco frames rust wise. And that was driven all winter and seldom washed either. [Michigan sacrificial vehicle] I sold that in 2019 and it's still running around perfectly fine. I sold it to a co-workers son. Now the brakes lines.........ehhhh, they were not in good shape.

Poor steel metallurgy and poor coating, no need to explain further because that is what it is.

Hell, my 1976 FJ40 frame looked better then a less then 10 year old Taco. the bodies on those rusted for sure but the frames held up quite well.

Easy fix, change the steel metallurgy or galvanize them. Fixed, Damn easy, not expensive, Toyota is just to lazy and cheap to do either.

 

From the reading I did Dana was shut down but they are still making the frames under a new name. Nothing gonna change when it’s the same one making them.

 

All I can say is where the Plant was in Reading Pa it is completely gone.

Like any company that files Bankruptcy the assets are sold off to those companies I did ask about the Jigs and Fixtures to late.

It still comes down to who rolled the steel in the end

 

Metalsa took over and has nothing to do with Dana. Now, I highly doubt that has had any positive effect on frame rust given they bought out Dana around 09/early 2010 and here we are with 05-11 and now 2013+ Tacoma rust campaigns. Who the hell knows what, if anything changed with the buyout.

Toyota knows people buy Tacomas like candy regardless and have no incentive to change.

 

If Toyota correctly spec'd out the material to be used and the wrong material was used, Toyotas' quality process failed on this one point. Then there was something missed in the PPAP, (Production Part Approval Process). Most auto manufactures in the US follow some type of PPAP process as a quality approval acceptance before the manufacture can start producing production run parts. Even the company I retired from vaguely followed this type of process. The quality inspectors checked the dimensional items per drawing and supplier quality control was to approve the material and make final decision. The inpectors verified the material cert that came in with the sample matched the drawing spec, but it was supplier quality control responsibility to have the material analyzed for correct compostion, (usually an outside source).
We are never going to know what the real issue is or was unless you can get a hold of Toyotas frame design specs on the frame, have the material anailzed, and who was responsible for approving the supplier.