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Downshifting in 4Lo (MT)

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by Dkarr13, Jun 27, 2021.

  1. Jun 27, 2021 at 8:48 PM
    #41
    kairo

    kairo >_>

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    Eh, that's open to some interpretation. I'm going to base this reply on some of the jeeps I've owned that were manuals, since I don't own a manual Tacoma, but I can assume in stock gearing configuration the stick shift taco is about the same as a stick shift wrangler.

    Primarily, if you're 4 wheeling in a group, over terrain that goes from pretty smooth to technical, It's far easier to use 3rd or 4th gear in 4low rather than pause every 100ft to shift the transfer case back and forth.

    If you have even slightly larger tires than stock, there's plenty of places where 4hi won't get you there but 2nd gear in 4low will.

    1st gear 4low is crawl, the other 4low gears are "keep up the pace without stopping constantly to shift the transfer case"

    In a TJ wrangler, shifting gears in 4low just means going to neutral first and either matching the RPMs or waiting for them to idle. No grinding. Again, I don't own a manual Tacoma, but I can't see how it would be any different from a mechanical standpoint.
     
  2. Jun 27, 2021 at 8:53 PM
    #42
    kairo

    kairo >_>

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    I just made a comment above, but I absolutely used to when I had stick shift rigs. Running in 4th or 5th on the smooth parts of trails in 4low and then dropping down to 2nd or 1st when needed. Have done that with multiple vehicles for many years and never had an issue.

    These were the stick shift rigs I did this on: '79 CJ5, '82 CJ7, '92 YJ, '95 XJ, '79 F-150, '02 TJ. Then I basically just went to automatics for various reasons.
     
  3. Jun 27, 2021 at 8:55 PM
    #43
    0xDEADBEEF

    0xDEADBEEF Swaying to the Symphony of Destruction

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    So it basically implies don't use OD in 4L

    49 mph in my truck in 4L and 4th gear would be 6300 rpm :laughing:
     
  4. Jun 27, 2021 at 9:00 PM
    #44
    JFick

    JFick Sawzall Enthusiast

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    I always have this issue when wheeling in 4L. I either rev match or just let the synchros take a little extra time to do their thing. If shifting back into first, do it stopped (just like most cars). Doing this I still get a random minor grind occasionally, but 99% of the time it’s good.
     
    SilverBulletII, Dkarr13[OP] and kairo like this.
  5. Jun 28, 2021 at 4:34 AM
    #45
    Dkarr13

    Dkarr13 [OP] IG: Tonya_Tacoma

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    So basically to sum up, the first few guys to comment about never leaving 1st gear and going above 5mph were smoking something I need to get on and 4lo should be used for speeds < 40mph (which is up to interpretation) on any terrain that isn't pavement because it provides much better control of the vehicle.

    In terms of the grinding when trying to downshift in 4lo, it seems like a pretty normal thing to grind some gears in the transmission. There are different methods that sometimes work for different people such as feathering/ easing the gear in place, rev matching, and double clutching although it's ultimately just doing it and learning what works best for you... for anyone interested in the conclusion
     
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  6. Jun 28, 2021 at 7:19 AM
    #46
    BigWhiteTRD

    BigWhiteTRD Official thread killer (only crickets remain)

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    Yes, although I THINK 5th gear is an overdrive gear.... (haven't verified my memory yet)
    I will have to look at the owner manual for the towing recommendations as well. Wonder if they are the same recommendations, if it is no 5th or 6th when towing...
    (Edit for non-english gibberish)
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
  7. Jun 28, 2021 at 7:39 AM
    #47
    tonered

    tonered bartheloni

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    5th and 6th are ODs.

    I've tooled around in LR 6th between sections many times.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
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  8. Jun 28, 2021 at 9:25 AM
    #48
    0xDEADBEEF

    0xDEADBEEF Swaying to the Symphony of Destruction

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    You people and your newfangled double overdrives! In my day overdrive was a button that activated a completely separate device bolted to the back of the transmission :laughing:


    So I guess I wonder why the 5th gear on the 5 spd shows a '-' in that table then.
     
    tonered[QUOTED] likes this.
  9. Jun 28, 2021 at 9:41 AM
    #49
    tonered

    tonered bartheloni

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    For the SR 5spd, 4th was 1:1 also. It had only a single OD gear.

    IMHO, I don't believe it really matters at all. For anything but full throttle engine loads over a long timeframe, all gears are just gears. Use them at will. Transmission, transfer, or diffs.

    If folks are towing heavy and are riding the floor boards in 5th or 6th, then that is bad bananas.

    In all cases, just use common sense and good judgement.
     
  10. Jun 28, 2021 at 9:49 AM
    #50
    CliffyDeuce

    CliffyDeuce Well-Known Member

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    Rev matching is the answer to your question. You naturally tend to rev match when upshifting, as the rpms are dropping as you’re shifting to the next higher gear. It takes more effort when downshifting. After you press in the clutch, blip the throttle so the rpms go up to where you think they’ll be in the next lower gear. As the rpms get there, shift into that gear and then release the clutch. You’re trying to get all the parts spinning at the proper speed before they mesh, so the synchros and clutch absorb less wear.
     
  11. Jun 28, 2021 at 9:53 AM
    #51
    vecdran

    vecdran Barely-Known Member

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    Learn to rev-match downshift. I have zero issues shifting between any gear in 4LO, up or down.
     
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  12. Jun 28, 2021 at 10:12 AM
    #52
    DeeKay20

    DeeKay20 Well-Known Member

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    OP, at first I had some messy downshifts in 4LO as well. The ratio change just messes with your shift routine, just take the shifts a little slower, learn the new engine sounds and rpms to rev match and you'll be good. Double clutching helps too. It's not really any different than learning a new transmission, takes time to get everything real smooth.

    I think the people saying not to use 4LO for anything other than crawling don't understand how gear ratios work. I generally throw mine into 4LO any time I'm heading up the mountain, I'm not going to be flopping back and forth between 4HI and 4LO because I'm afraid to use 4th gear. I've even used 6th in 4LO on a short straight section of paved road between trailheads :crapstorm:. The only time I could see using 4HI would be deep mud or on road in the winter...other than that it's pretty useless offroad, at least in the mountains. Maybe autos are a different story because the torque converter multiplies torque by a bit...lower elevation would be a different story too.

    Unrelated, I'd be curious to see a dyno sheet from sea level and one at like 7500 feet just to see how much power is lost.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
  13. Jun 28, 2021 at 10:22 AM
    #53
    eon_blue

    eon_blue If I would, could you

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    Yeah it's definitely different with autos. When I go wheeling with groups I'm usually the only one with an MT, and I always get asked why I stay in 4lo when the rest of them only use 4lo for certain sections/obstacles.

    Inevitably, during summer runs someone with an AT will have an overheating AT light come on and we have to stop and let him cool down. Come to find out they're staying in 4hi on crawling sections which I'm sure contributes to the overheating of the AT.

    They don't have to worry about stalling while crawling up ledges or rocks on steep hills though so they have that going for them.
     
  14. Jun 28, 2021 at 10:36 AM
    #54
    ret42

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    Love all this anecdotal "don't drive in 4LO" business, when people complain that the truck has to be level to shift the transfer case in the first place. What should OP do, roll all the way back down the mountain to find a flat spot when he gets to a technical area at 10k feet? Kind of puts him right back in the same boat, but now he has to drive the route 3 times. :rofl:
    That table shows maximum speeds in a gear, not suggested speeds for that gear. That's the speed your vehicle is moving when you hit the redline. I don't know hwy that would imply not to use OD.
     
  15. Jun 28, 2021 at 10:46 AM
    #55
    DeeKay20

    DeeKay20 Well-Known Member

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    Oh for sure, all that slip in the converter and clutches will boil fluid pretty quick, especially with no air going through the trans cooler(if it has one) I was totally that guy when I had my Sierra :rofl:. Then I hit the some of the same spots in my Tacoma trying to run up the trail in 4HI, pinned to the floor in 1st and still killed it haha. Then of course took 5 minutes to figure out how to get it in 4LO on the side of a hill. I had like 200 miles on the truck at this point and of course hadn't even taken the manual out of the plastic.
     
  16. Jun 28, 2021 at 10:48 AM
    #56
    eon_blue

    eon_blue If I would, could you

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    Yeah when I first started wheeling more technical stuff in my truck, I didn't know about the beauty of 4lo + MT and tried following friends up a steep hill in 4hi. Stalled halfway up and tried a few more times, same thing. Thought for sure something was wrong with my truck for awhile after that, I just didn't realize I needed to be in 4lo. Their autos allowed them to do that in 4hi but probably at the expense of their tranny fluid and maybe even the longevity of their trans.
     
  17. Jun 28, 2021 at 11:19 AM
    #57
    stickshifter

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    This ^

    The 3rd Gen Tacoma (I have only driven a MT) is useless in high range at elevation going up steep dirt roads. The only way to drive it is in 4 Low. You are not damaging the truck. On the contrary, you are avoiding potential wear & tear: winding out first gear in high range is bad, lugging second gear in high range is bad, heat build up is reduced in 4 Low, and the low gearing actually yields usable torque at lower rpms. I’ll say it again, Ram touts being able to hit 50 mph in low range in their Power Wagon with the 8-speed auto.

    Using low range in a 3rd Gen Tacoma in gears higher than first is not only “okay” it’s the appropriate way to drive under many off-pavement conditions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
  18. Jun 28, 2021 at 11:27 AM
    #58
    0xDEADBEEF

    0xDEADBEEF Swaying to the Symphony of Destruction

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    Agreed. The reason I suspected it was implying not to use OD is that it didn't list a speed for 5th gear on a 5 speed. Didn't realize that the 5th gear on the 6 speed is also an OD gear, so that breaks that idea.
     
  19. Jun 28, 2021 at 1:07 PM
    #59
    gudujarlson

    gudujarlson Well-Known Member

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    I experienced something similar when I first started using 4lo a lot. I noticed that both upshifting and downshifting are more finicky in low range compared to high range. I just learned to shift a bit slower and carefully.

    I know of no problem with using all 6 gears in 4lo as you see fit. 1st gear in 4hi is useless for crawling if you don’t hate your clutch and shifting back and forth between 4lo and 4hi is a PITA. Common sense for the win.
     
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  20. Oct 4, 2021 at 12:50 PM
    #60
    JFick

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    I posted a good bit up in here, but that was prior to installing a CORE short shifter (which I know some in this thread have too :D). I installed the shifter a month after my comment, and have been on a few wheeling trips since.

    I used to have a ton of problems downshifting 3->2 or 2->1 in low-range. Looking back now, I actually think more of it was slop in the shifter. I remember wheeling with the stock shifter, and that thing was not very precise when the trail gets bumpy, and this can be seen by it yeeting around, as I stated in another thread. With the CORE shifter, there is negligible slop when wheeling, and I have only had it grind twice, and I have put about 500 dirt miles on it since installing it. 10 passes/trails in CO, and a good bit of fuckery around where I live in CA.

    Maybe I’m getting better at rev-matching in low, but I wheeled a good bit prior to installing it, and the thing sucked in-comparison. :notsure:

    Anyone else with a CORE care to share their experience?
     
    Benny blanco likes this.

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