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Economy, any one else share my view?

Discussion in 'General Automotive' started by DanGer, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Feb 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM
    #1
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    Does anyone else see a problem in all these bailouts and stimuli plans? We have no money so where is it going to come from? The gov is either going to print it locking us into years and year of inflation to come, or its going to be borrowed from other nations. Does having other countries bail us out for our bails outs really make sense?
     
  2. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:01 AM
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    ERdept

    ERdept Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe you can't spend your way out of it.

    But I also see the positive in it because it seemed that America and its people were on the road to general wastefullness due to overinflated housing prices and the promise of everyone just being able to make it.

    This will hopefully set up a Depression era mentality again of being conservative and careful with spending, and saving things and not being wasteful.
     
  3. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:03 AM
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    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    Yes but i think Americans have moved from a depression mentality to a GOVERNMENT MUST SAVE US mentality. You gotta sacrifice to make it, build savings not take out loans or rely on gov handouts! Swallow the difficult medicine to make it better!
     
  4. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:07 AM
    #4
    Delmarva

    Delmarva Mayor of TW

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    yup... :thumbsup:

    Why do people put so much faith and trust in the people that brought you the Internal Revenue Service?

    ^^
    That's also why I don't understand Socialized Medicine...
     
  5. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:07 AM
    #5
    bobwilson1977

    bobwilson1977 Well-Known Member

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    I'm generally against bailouts for more selfish reasons. I live in Northern California where housing prices became incredibly overpriced and in my opinion wrecked the quality of life for everyone except for the upper class. Its still really overpriced where I live and not supported by median incomes. There was no way the economy could've continued on in this area like this.

    But all I hear on the news are these plans to somehow "save housing". For me, I want to see those prices drop to levels my Wife and I can afford. We don't make chump change and do pretty well, which is why current prices are still so totally stupid. By "helping" homeowners keep their homes- many whom couldn't afford them anyway- they are basically slapping people like me in the face. Screw that.

    From a general perspective, I agree, you can't spend your way out of this. The answer is painful and nobody wants to hear it. But the reality is that either Americans are going to have to be more productive and actually make money from exports and thus have real incomes not tied to debt, or we're going to have to drastically adjust our financial habits-aka- learn to live way more modestly.

    The ugly truth is that the middle class is dead in the US and was only artificially supported with debt being bought by other countries that allowed us to continue on.
     
  6. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:15 AM
    #6
    Mr Wiggles

    Mr Wiggles Supergroovalisticprosifun kstication

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    Just a quick thing in defense of socialize medicine.

    I believe that there are certain things in society that government should look after on behalf of all citizens regardless of age, social standing, or income.

    In my opinion, the following should be socialized everywhere

    Basic Education including libraries
    Police, Fire, and Emergency Workers
    Armed forces and defense
    Medical treatments, doctors, etc

    I'm Canadian, and socialized medicine works. Amazingly. Of course it's not perfect, but after growing up in the states (we had great health care) but seeing some friend's families denied surgeries and treatments that could've saved lives, it breaks my heart that governments allow their citizens health to go by the wayside.

    I still don't understand why socialized medicine is so demonized especially in the United States.
     
  7. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:21 AM
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    bobwilson1977

    bobwilson1977 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you on this one. I think we do need to make healthcare available to everyone. I can personally tell you that if it wern't for my Grandmother's husband having been in WW2 thus giving her lifelong healthcare, she would be bankrupt right now. Its been estimated that within 10 years, 50% of the avg family income will go to healthcare costs. Agreed- not sure why people here are so much against it. probably because it has the word "social" in it. ooooohhh. socialism! oh no!
     
  8. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:22 AM
    #8
    fuel100

    fuel100 Well-Known Member

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    Because the US Gov't is completely inept to handle the whole system. Look at Social Security, Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps, and on and on. I run a non-profit organization and I stay FAR AWAY from fed funds.
     
  9. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:40 AM
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    Delmarva

    Delmarva Mayor of TW

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    1. I'm Canadian too -- I just got smart enough and got my US Citizenship... :thumbsup:
    2. I watched my grandmother in Canada who had a stroke, go on a wait list for surgery... :thumbsup:
    3. I don't want to be a Marxist...
     
  10. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:50 AM
    #10
    bobwilson1977

    bobwilson1977 Well-Known Member

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    Social security and other programs like it worked for decades.Far longer than they haven't worked. The question is more along the lines of why did it stop working and how to enact programs that work. No legislation works forever- whether they're democratic, socialist, communist, or whatever. Obviously leaving people and companies to their own devices doesn't work either-per the huge mess we're in now.So the argument that the US should be entirely and completely capitalist fails as well because it is at this point a complete failure.

    I don't care if its deemed socialist or capitalist.Labels are primarily physiological . I want a system that works.
     
  11. Feb 4, 2009 at 9:52 AM
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    Mr Wiggles

    Mr Wiggles Supergroovalisticprosifun kstication

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    Amen. There are some major changes i would love to see on both sides of the border.
     
  12. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:01 AM
    #12
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    I think healthcare is something that citizens should provide for themselves. If it gets socialized, it will rival the efficiency of a DMV. Have we all forgotten that you get what you earn and don't rely on the government for handouts? Its like education, if you come from wealth you can afford very expensive private schooling, if not like majority of us you attend public schools til a certain age.
     
  13. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:05 AM
    #13
    Mr Wiggles

    Mr Wiggles Supergroovalisticprosifun kstication

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    HAHA! you made me laugh.

    Tell that to the retards at the Big 3 who haven't made a car people want to buy in decades. Or the greedy fucks at the banks who just got bailed out.

    Your government can find what will likely cost taxpayers over a trillion to help industries that are wrecked by the time its said and done but can't feed the poor or care for people's health? what a joke.

    And after you get laid off and have no health care and need something done, let's see how you feel about it.
     
  14. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:15 AM
    #14
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    Wiggles, i am adamantly against the bailouts. The solution to our problems is not to spend which is exactly what these are doing. we should waste money to bailout companies that are losing 10 billion a week. I am in college studying a very useful and specialized field so i doubt i will ever get laid off. Maybe more ppl should get educated so they don't have to rely on GOV handouts.

    Actually the less ppl that get educate the easier it is for me to find a job. oops, did I mention I am an elitist like our founding fathers?
     
  15. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:20 AM
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    Mr Wiggles

    Mr Wiggles Supergroovalisticprosifun kstication

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    Ah, a college student. I should've guessed.

    Well, good luck in your highly specialized field once you graduate and join the real workforce. What are you studying?
     
  16. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:23 AM
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    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    Majoring in mechanical engineering and minoring in nuclear engineering and arabic. I think I'll enter the workforce with the navy for 5 years getting paid shit but leaving with some very useful experience.
     
  17. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM
    #17
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    remember the efficiency thing I cautioned against?
     
  18. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:34 AM
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    bobwilson1977

    bobwilson1977 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is a simple yes or no type of situation. But the facts are that in certain areas of the country- like out here in California- even some of the most basic public institutions like public schools are failing. Its very obvious out here that poor families are at a severe disadvantage over wealthy ones. I grew up in the South where even if you were poor, you got a decent education. That isn't the situation out here.

    Its because there are more people. More people= more competition and competition means those with more power generally get more in general. That's just life. The thin line is asking whether someone ( like a child) has the same rights to basic things as other kids. Now take that same question and apply it to things like health care and so on. California is a glimpse into the future for the rest of the country because someday, everywhere else will get just as populated.

    I'm not nuts about social services either. They tend to become inefficient and inadequate with time. That's their primary fault. But without social causes-aka- the government, you have the opposite effect which is increasing class disparity. People these days are confused why there is no middle class today. No mystery to me.

    I don't even pretend to know how to answer these questions. But obviously we do need some changes.
     
  19. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:50 AM
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    Delmarva

    Delmarva Mayor of TW

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    90% of College students in the US are Liberals (source - my brain) :laugh:

    I wouldn't have thought he wasn't a college student if he didn't say it... :thumbsup:
     
  20. Feb 4, 2009 at 10:59 AM
    #20
    bobwilson1977

    bobwilson1977 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting... Never really equated higher learning with being liberal. Guess I learn something new every day. Does that mean people that don't go to college are conservatives?
     
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