Electric vs Gas Cost

I laugh every time I see nonsense articles bashing EVs from people that don't own EVs. People look at the future of EVs and believe that everything is one dimensional. The tech is constantly improving and within the next 10 years we will see huge advances in battery tech that will be game changing. Solid state batteries are on the way and a movement away from lithium ion to other metal ions is getting closer to real world use. Harvard has developed a coin design lithium metal solid state battery which is capable of being full in 5 minutes.
Unfortunately the fast charging (>150KW) infrastructure, sans Tesla, is terrible and is the basis for most of the complaints noted on charging times in the US.
Hopefully the infrastructure bill that was passed will start addressing this issue.

Regarding the cost of battery replacement and degradation. Tesla's are now starting to age. If you go onto Tesla forums you would see in the real world that these batteries do not lose a lot of their capacity over time IF you charge them appropriately. These batteries will likely outlast the life of the cars. The government mandates a minimum of 8 years and 100K miles of warranty. There are refurbished batteries available for all current Tesla models at a significantly reduced cost (15K vs 20+K). Tesla uses reconditioned batteries as their warranty replacements. Tesla is claiming a >90% reclamation of the components of their batteries and currently they are being used to produce the Tesla walls found in home battery backups. The infrastructure is just not there yet for mass recycling but will be in the future. There are a few companies in the US that are capable of doing it and have plans to expand in the future.

Are EVs for everyone?
Absolutely not. However, if you own a home, live in a temperate climate and drive less than 150 miles per day, an EV is the ideal vehicle.
Living in AZ I see a lot of Tesla's on the road during my morning commute. I typically drive 12 miles to one of the offices I work at. On the way I have counted anywhere from 15-20 other Tesla's on my way in to the office. I see more and more all the time.

I own a Tesla model 3 performance. Why?
Not for the reasons one may think. Do I like not having to fill up on petrol? you bet, but that is just a small reason.
I purchased the car because it is fast as F**K. I like speed. I like to go from a dead stop to insane speeds quickly. You cannot beat the instantaneous torque this car provides along with a 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. It's a different type of experience that one has to experience for themselves to understand. This car is the most fun I have ever had driving....full stop. Dollar for dollar the M3P is the fastest vehicle on the road for what it costs. They now are being offered with the lowered MSRP for $55K and the price is $47.5 if you qualify for federal tax credits. Show me any other vehicle that compares in price and performance.
Don't get me wrong, I still love my ICE vehicles. My Tacoma serves a purpose in my life. But I am a car junkie. I currently own a 67 Mustang convertible with a 408 stroker, a 2001 BMW Z3 3.0 (capable of 0-60 in 5.7 seconds- very respectable for a 22 yr old car), and a recent acquisition of a 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo capable of 0-60 in around 4.0 seconds. The Porsche has been described as a sneaky ninja.

So where does this leave me in regard to the OPs original claim of $11+ dollars for 100 miles of driving?
I'm gonna call BS on that.
I currently charge my car with the use of a product called a Dryer Buddy. Most houses built within the last 30 years in the Phoenix area have their laundry rooms built off the garage. The Dryer Buddy plugs into your dryer plug and splits the outlets into two. There is built in circuitry that shuts off the secondary plug when the dryer is running, not allowing the second outlet to see electricity until the dryer is no longer running (even if still on). The 40 amp breaker that supplies the dryer will allow the Tesla to draw a maximum of 26 amps during a charge. This equates to approximately 22 miles of charge per hour.
My electric rates, based on my current plan, has off peak hours at all times except 3pm-6pm M-F only. I average about $0.08-9 per KWH (tax is probably additional).
As an example- Last Saturday I met some friends at the bar to watch the football game. The bar is 23 miles from my house. I drove there and back for a total of 46 miles. I then took my GF to the Coyotes game at ASUs Mullett arena which is 30 miles from the house, that added another 60 miles to my days drive for a total of 106 miles. The Tesla app on my phone monitors charging stats for each day along with monthly and yearly stats.
On that day I used 32KW to charge back to a standard 80% charge. Even at $0.15 per KWH at off peak use, it would be under $5 to charge.
If I had driven my Tacoma, at the current average of 20mpg combined I get, the same trip would have cost me $17.95 based on Phoenix average of $3.59/gallon. That would be almost triple the cost. So once again to OPs post....BS

Finally, the last thing that I see constantly deriding EVs is the time to charge in the event you decide to take a road trip.
I took my first long trip to California from Phoenix in December. I was traveling from the far east portion of the Valley to San Diego. What was it going to be like? Would I suffer from range anxiety? Would I be able to find chargers if I was getting low on charge? Let me describe what it was like in real life and the costs associated with it. The distance was 359 miles door to door. My car at full charge shows a 305 mile range under ideal conditions. I have a lead foot, the range is based on 60 mph. The speed limit on the highways in AZ is 75mph and California is 70mph. I tend to drive about 5 mph over the speed limit on long stretches of low traffic roads. The car maps out the route for you and has anticipated chargers to be stopping at based on anticipated remaining charge once you reach the charging station. The car likes to get down to about 10% before it demands a charge.
Looking at my route, my first stop was going to be in Yuma, on the AZ/Cali border. The driving distance was about 200 miles from the house. We got there around 11 am with about 24% charge remaining. The Supercharger, with 10 charging stations, had me charging for 20 minutes in order to reach my next charging destination. I decided to charge up to 90% to avoid range anxiety. The charging stations are always near food/services to use the bathroom or eat while you charge. Since it was close to lunch we decided to have food while we charged. The car finished charging before we finished eating and the cost to go from 24% to 90% was $20.64. That charge was supposed to get us to our destination with 11% remaining. However, as we entered the mountains of southern California, with a lot of head wind, I steadily watched the remaining charge at destination drop to 4%. I stopped for a bathroom break on the way down the last mountain and searched for a charger along the route. One was found about 25 miles from my destination and we arrived with 11% charge. I set the vehicle to charge up to 70% which was to take approximately another 20 minutes. We found a market near the charger and went and had a cup of coffee and picked up some cookies. The second charge cost us $23.97.
We arrived at our destination with about 60% charge.

I have made this trip several times with my Tacoma. I typically will stop for gas once along the way at about 1/4 tank and then refill again once I arrive in California. Based on todays gas prices and average of 20mpg, I would need approximately 18 gallons of gas, or about $64.62. The savings is still there but not as great because of the cost of the superchargers. The time cost in charging added on about 20 minutes to my trip. I normally will stop for a few bathroom breaks and food which prolongs a normal stop to just get gas. I was able to time the charging with bathroom breaks which made a difference.
I left San Diego and went to Orange County to visit my sister. On the way home we took I 10 from LA and we needed to stop 3 times to charge but only for about 10 minutes each. We used those stops for bathroom breaks and dinner.
Sorry if I bored you with my diatribe, but I just wanted to give my input and what real life experiences are like living with a Tesla.
Long live the Taco

 

https://ev-riders.com/news/the-pres...ccelerate-the-transition-to-the-electric-car/

 

I did the install myself for about $300 cabling and $250 for the first 220 charger we had. When I sold our first low budget EV for our Model 3 I upgraded the charger which was $400. Only reason I even did this was because after 3 years and a ton of miles we sold the first EV (2016 eGolf) for more than we paid. Then I sold that first charger for $200. The Tesla brand charger is nice and is more convenient, but also completely unnecessary.

The cost is totally dependent on if you have the space in your panel available, and distance to the panel. Cost per ft on the 220v is super high. My cost per kWh is .075.

Weighing in on the rest of the thread, cause why not:

Most people have a 2 car household. Having 1 of those vehicles be an EV would prob make a lot of sense for most people, if they considered all the variables. Having a Tacoma and a Model 3 is a great combo because they are each great at what they do.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned in this thread is the convenience of just never having to go to a gas station with an EV. Gradually keep it topped up and it’s always ready to go. My wife hasn’t been to a gas station in 4 years. If I “forgot” to charge it… it would take several days back to back to run it down to the point I couldn’t get to work, it would only take 5 minutes at a supercharger to get me through the day and back home where I can get it back on an economical charger.

Another factor EV’s excel in, short distance trips. Starting an ICE and driving 2-3 miles, shutting down, starting back up again and going home…. Is fucking terrible for the vehicle, if that’s the primary use. Drop a kid off at school, hit a grocery store, go home, go back out and run another errand, home, back out to grab kids, home, back out for dinner, home. It’s a non issue in the EV, and I drive my Tacoma to work 20 miles each day which are “better” miles.

It’s funny when both sides of the argument are correct, but everyone wants to argue the other person is wrong…. How about, both sides are correct?

The EV isn’t without complaint, I can rant another paragraph or 2 on where they lack or have challenges. Suck in the snow (subjective, but yeah they aren’t as great as they boast).

 

So if I am trying to understand this, you are trying to make comparisons between a $55K MP3 and a Ferrari??
That is an apple to oranges comparison if I ever saw one. How about comparing a S plaid to said cars as at least their costs are getting close to being in the same ballpark.
Have you ever seen the video of the S plaid taking on a McClaren 720S that was non stock in a 1/4 mile race.
https://youtu.be/loUsRGW9z-I

 

Lol, we were prob writing these “diatribes” at the same time. Yeah, I can mirror your experiences pretty much exact. Being fortunate to have both a Model 3 and a Taco is wildly convenient.

 

$360k Ferrari 812 1/4 mile 10.4s @ 138mph
$54k Tesla M3P 1/4 mile 11.5s @ 120mph
$114k Tesla MS Plaid 1/4 mile 8.8s @ 161mph

 

I wasnt, someone else compared the M3P to a supercar...I countered with data.

That said let's look at how the Tesla Model S Plaid did at the Nurbergring at 7:36 that puts it around the same performance as an Audi RS3, Nissan GTR, Chevrolet Comero Z/28, Mercedes AMG GT etc. While the McLaren 720s came in at 7:08, Ferrari 812 7:27.

It's not slow but its kind of the poor mans sports car, its like the EV version of a corvette LOL. Its got the price and performance of an early-mid 2000s super car. (e.g. 458, Porsche 997 etc)

Can you include your source, every single site contradicts this. Trying to find stuff that aligns.

 

^This.

 

The agenda is selling as many EV's to as many sectors as they can, before it becomes obvious that they are not a sustainable primary mode of transportation. I used to be in the industry, so much hype.

 

Well we can all agree on one thing, we live our lives one on ramp at a time

 

Would you like to back that up with facts. Again, an industry that is too often looked at as being static. So many advances that will change the progression of the industry are coming down the road. What we see now is nothing like what we will see ten years down the road.
Look at ICE vehicles and the advances they have made especially in the last 50 years.

 

Enjoy the ride on the hype train. ;-)

 

Sources were from various sites but I managed to find one common one for all with C&D. Numbers slightly different but all from the same source, adjusted below.

$465k Ferrari 812 1/4 mile 10.4s @ 138mph
$54k Tesla M3P 1/4 mile 11.5s @ 115mph
$114k Tesla MS Plaid 1/4 mile 9.4s @ 151mph

Note that the Tesla Model 3 Performance had a noticeable speed improvement in 2019. So if you were looking at older data that could account for some difference.

 

just curious how this report's maybe possibly some kind of mining somewhere for something is compared to greenhouse gases from continued burning of fossil fuels as it pertains to ICE transportation

 

The problem I see, the more EV's on the road. Means less gas vehicles. The f'n government is going to raise gas taxes to compensate it. We're screwed.

 

So there is a conspiracy to move to clean energy transport across the globe?

 

Better MPG and non leaded fuel and reduced emissions...Seems to be it

 

Compelling argument, I’m convinced.

 

What about the petrol hype, see that mess it got the planet into. Progression is a curse word to some.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2HneqfZGsM