Electric vs Gas Cost

Then tell us, Nostradamus, what is the vehicle of the future?

 

Imagine if scientists in the 1900's when the ICE was being developed or burning coal knew that burning fossil fuels would be detrimental to the people on the planet 100 years later, would there be pundits warning against using those fossil fuels?

 

Whatever burns 'da best...woo hooo 'merica

 

it seems some people never really venture out of certain subforums to the open discussion area

 

I asked once for an Electric Vehicle Off topic room.

 

Did you look at the dude on their website. lol.

 

Problem is a lot of comparable models measure emissions differently. Most models look at ICE from well-to--wheel while EV is often looked at lifecycle.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-09/documents/awalker.pdf

Below is a good comparison, you'll notice the weaknesses highlighted in the table at the end.

 

Steam-electric powered vehicles would be very interesting. ECU controlled boiler temp and valves and an alloy, of some type, protective case for the boiler. I'm just thinking out loud...

 

Techncially all power is steam-poewer, solar, nuclear, coal etc all generate steam for turbines.

We should have compact-fusion and everyone just runs off nuclear in thier car.

 

General Automotive is good place for it, much better than the 3rd Gen section.

 

I call cherry picked bull shit on that report. Using actual numbers from my 22 Tesla Model Y long range and a comparable ICE BMW X5 lets see how they padded the numbers.

My home charged Tesla costs $4/100 miles @ .11 KWh. My electric rate would need to be nearly three times as much @ .31/KWh.
My Supercharged Tesla costs $10/100 miles. There are other charging stations that more or less than Superchargers, so if they cherry picked only the highest rates then maybe.
A BMW X5 is going to cost $15/100 miles at the current average of $3.49/gallon

Hawaii is the only state with electricity any where near .31/KWh, and their gas is $4.93/gallon. That makes the BMW cost $21/100 miles.

I pay .11/KWh. Using your .14/KWh a Tesla will cost you $5/100 miles

The reason the infrastructure for battery recycling isn't there is due to a lack of batteries to recycle. EV's are still new and running on their original batteries. I watched an interview of the CEO of a battery recycling startup and was struck by one statement. He said used EV batteries are the highest grade ore available anywhere. Capitalism will solve the problem of recycling.

(and I agree with the rest of your post too, just trimmed it for brevity.)

I had an epiphany that this move to EV's isn't the first big electrification in history. The first was when electricity replaced oil lamps. One story is how they asked an old lady how she liked her electric lights. She said they were nice because now she could find her oil lamp and light it easier.

The second was when coal fired steam locomotives were replaced by diesel electrics. My grandfather was an train engineer when that happened and he fought it every way he could. Apparently those early electrics could be shut down if they were mishandled, which he did. Eventually they pulled the last steam engine from service and he had no choice. As an adult I've ridden on a steam engine tourist ride through the mountains of Colorado. Beautiful and I recommend it, but I couldn't help but think about my grandfather. I have no clue what he saw in coal powered engines, nasty, dirty things if you ask me.

 

Ha thats why I said the "first" smile, and wont be the last

 

Look to Norway. Or BC, Canada for a North American perspective. Close to 20% of new vehicle sales here are PHEV or fully electric. Power producers typically have excess power at night and timers will have cars charging during the non peak hours.

 

Okay, so here’s the actual report. The methodology is mostly abstract with a ton of speculative (questionable) material. One can’t be sure they’re wrong, but a skim of the 77 pages shows zero granular detail that would show their data analyses are true-to-world. I have little faith in any of the numbers because the reader is not able to see the raw data.

Reminds me of a conference panel I attended on “new urbanism” and the ability to use alternate transportation methods; that land planning approach suggested people buying homes in such a location might use their cars less. The two sociologists completing the study had actually wired transponders to volunteering parties’ cars. (As expected, people used the trails for recreation, not grocery runs or commuting or work.) This Anderson report doesn’t seem to have even that level of intimacy with the subject matter.

It’s sad when you read a report like this. It was a lot of time and energy spent by the author and whatever (unnamed?) client paid for the report, and Anderson’s paper doesn’t seem to offer any valid takeaways that can be trusted.

Reader beware. Shrug.

 

hydro-electric power is steam power ?

 

So basically you are confirming what I previously quoted was nothing but opinion with no facts to back it up. Got it.

 

Nope the government is not stupid. They will certainly institute a EV tax based on mileage driven to compensate. My guess is it will be greater than any gas tax.

 

Hey now, we’re trying to have some fun here. Could a just said wind turbines.

 

Actually let me find it I found a report that current infrastructure can only support about 75% and that they need to find solutions for peak charging and alternate sources like Nuclear to maintain the grid.

The previous article I found but this was curious.

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/sites/nrcan/files/Executive Summary ICF_English.pdf

 

All of BC and most of Canada's electricity is generated by hydro-electric