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Federal Government wants to reduce our Pension!

Discussion in 'Military' started by solus, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Jul 28, 2011 at 4:33 PM
    #21
    steviestyles

    steviestyles The "Search" tab is your friend!!

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    It seems some of our folks who have been in less than 10 years don't know the military when Clinton was in office and the cutbacks threatened then. There are a lot of veteran lobbyist groups on Capital Hill that will shoot this down before a bill is even sent to the floor. Every year threats are made to our current retirement system. Only a couple of years ago, Congress proposed a retirement similar to what The Reserves an Guard has....there was a lot of talk and speculation, and it never made it to past discussion in the House. As I said earlier, once the Generals in the Pentagon start to feel uneasy with the jacking of our retirement, the Service Chiefs will bring up holy hell....heck they wanted to raise TRICARE rates on our retirees a year ago, and that never made it anywhere. It is political suicide for any member of Government to support slashing military retiree benefits. There will be more of a chance of raising retirement to say 22 years than to move to a corporate pension system.
     
  2. Jul 28, 2011 at 5:00 PM
    #22
    Devious6

    Devious6 Well-Known Member

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    If the military pay rates were adjusted upward to make up for the disparity between civilian and military rates and the compunding losses over the years because of either artifically low or no pay raises, that I might agree that someone entering with their eyes open would understand that's wht they are getting. But, that in no way compensates for the deployments, times in harms way, times away from families, repeated moves, etc. Heck, I remember as a new 2LT being turned down for a Sears credit card because my income was too low.

    our government loves to praise us with one hand while they slip the other in our pockets. When I entered the Army, family members were allowed to have dental care provided on a space available basis on post. Then that was taken away...with no pay compensation. Despite the fact that my retirement rate is fixed, they now talk of increasing what I pay for our medical care - after the fact. Like others, I have a litany of small, mostly undocumented, dings and problems resulting from years of the accumulated abuse of daily life in the military. I worked with 155mm, 8 inch and Lance missile nuke rounds - the 8 inch round boxes were warm to the touch...I wonder why? Who knows what that means to me long term? But, I do resent the government changing my coverages after I retired.

    I don't regret one bit the time I spent in the Army and would do it all over again. I just feel a bit betrayed when politicians try to make up for gross overspending by taking money promised to me and my family.

    Oh, by the way, do the non-military members know that when the military member dies, his/her retirement checks stop? It's possible to provide up to 55% of that to continue to the surviving spouse by sacrificing a big chunk of one's retirement check now and bet that we'll die before our spouses. I have a good friend who's wife died 4 years ago - and he lost about 40% of his retirement income - not to mention the compounding interest - for nothing. Sad.

    Rant over. i miss the Army and the soldiers, NCOs and officers I served with every day of my life. That will never change and I am honored to have been able to serve our great Nation. True dat.
     
  3. Jul 28, 2011 at 5:18 PM
    #23
    Brunes

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    It's funny...Look anywhere you want, at any segment of society- and this argument applies.
    Folks who retired years ago have had to deal with rising prices and things changing around them...Lots of things have a give or change to fix the situation...Finding that balance...It's not ever gunna happen.

    Am I happy that they are talking about it?? Nope. Do I think that a study for a think tank is a statement of intent or a viable option? Nope. Make sure your elected officials know what you think...but I wouldn't worry about it too much.
     
  4. Jul 28, 2011 at 6:34 PM
    #24
    maju

    maju Well-Known Member

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    I agree, more time is tough when you can see it, and they change the rules.

    50% of base pay is not that much, and you only get that if you make it to 20. I got out in 1998 (served 20 years 5 months, would have done more but was told that medically I could no longer do so). I have: 1 knee replaced, 1 shoulder has 2 pins, 1 plate and 3 screws in right arm, 1 wrist and hand have limited motion, 1 ankle fused, several screws and a plate holding my right femur together, 3 compressed disks, several other broken bones, and some soft tissue damage (basicly one side of my body got a litte tweaked) I was retired due to this injury and still had a several months of therapy before I was "100%" again.
    It was a bit rough finacially during this time. The retirement pay I cannot imgine what it would have been like with out it, but 50% is not that much.

    I saw lots of people get out at 15 - 18 years reasons were injuries or the family just could not handle the seperation time any longer. After 10 years most are in because they like it, which makes getting out so much worse.

    If the retierment went to some sort of 401K plan then maybe that would work... but how long before you can put into it? How long before you are fully vested?

    A lot more people get out before 20 than get out at or after 20 which might make it cost more for a "corporate style" retirement plan.
     
  5. Jul 28, 2011 at 7:26 PM
    #25
    cakmakli

    cakmakli Finally made it - U.S. Army Retired

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    Well said Sir. You said everything I wanted to say but did it better then I ever could.
     
  6. Jul 28, 2011 at 11:48 PM
    #26
    solus

    solus [OP] HOME!!!

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    The Clinton years were a very different time... just a few weeks ago The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mullen said that "All" pentagon budget items were "on the table" when discuss DOD budget cuts... I few weeks after that Defense secretary Robert Gates reiterated that and added that service members should expect changes to their pay and benefits.

    While there has been proposals in the past I don't think they've ever had the support of the top brass like they do now. Combine this with the Feds new found interest in cutting the deficit and you can logically make the conclusion that some change is in the pipeline...its just a matter of how severe.

    Its a matter of "People of Stuff" and it is pretty clear that the pentagon has chosen "stuff"
     
  7. Jul 28, 2011 at 11:48 PM
    #27
    OZ-T

    OZ-T All of those moments....will be lost.....in time

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  8. Jul 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM
    #28
    solus

    solus [OP] HOME!!!

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    haha, I just deleted that because it was a bit crass and irrelevant to the whole conversation...but I guess you're too quick
     
  9. Jul 28, 2011 at 11:56 PM
    #29
    PcBuilder14

    PcBuilder14 Well-Known Member

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    All this talk worries me, since I just signed a 6 year contract with the AIR Force Tuesday..
     
  10. Jul 28, 2011 at 11:57 PM
    #30
    OZ-T

    OZ-T All of those moments....will be lost.....in time

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    Gone
     
  11. Jul 29, 2011 at 12:06 AM
    #31
    MountainEarth

    MountainEarth Well-Known Member

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    Yeah well now you guys know what teachers, cops and firefighters have been going through .. and what they were fighting for in Wisconsin (among other places). Defined benefit pension plans are under fire all over the place. Meanwhile, the top 10% of this nation now control $73.10 out of every $100. The other 90% fight for the remaining $26.90. Good thing we're not going to raise taxes on the wealthy. Best to just cut the pension of the servants. :mad:
     
  12. Jul 29, 2011 at 12:08 AM
    #32
    PcBuilder14

    PcBuilder14 Well-Known Member

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    Mom's a teacher, so I hear both halves...
     
  13. Jul 29, 2011 at 12:28 AM
    #33
    solus

    solus [OP] HOME!!!

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    makes sense to me... I see the logic in that...:rolleyes:

    but lets not divert this too far into the political realm.
     
  14. Jul 29, 2011 at 12:29 AM
    #34
    KalamaKid

    KalamaKid Well-Known Member

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    same shit as everyone else
    None of the retirement reductions will affect anyone who has enlisted prior to a change. Y'all will be grandfathered in just like every single change that has happened before.
     
  15. Jul 29, 2011 at 12:40 AM
    #35
    KalamaKid

    KalamaKid Well-Known Member

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    same shit as everyone else
    A few years back when Rumsfeld was in charge congress pushed this issue around a bit. Including allowing a 10 year retirement with pay available at 59 1/2. I'm looking for it now but there was an Executive Order issued that included wording that anyone who starts active service will receive the retirement benefits that were available when they originally came into the military, even if the benefits are taken away from new recruits after you. This is one reason why we still have the old MGIB for people like me who didn't come in till 2002. I paid my $1200, thus I will always be able to use the old program. :cool:
     
  16. Jul 29, 2011 at 1:35 AM
    #36
    2008taco

    2008taco Well-Known Member

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    I come from a military family. They said there are some benefits to this proposed plan. You'll get decent benefits if you get out early. In all likelyhood current members will be grandfathered for their current plans to avoid breach of contract lawsuits, etc.

    The sad fact is we are 14 TRILLION dollars in debt and the government is trying to show us spending cuts with BIG numbers so that you'll think they are doing good and not realize how much they're truly screwing us.
     
  17. Jul 29, 2011 at 4:10 AM
    #37
    solus

    solus [OP] HOME!!!

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    Actually, if you read the article you would see that under this new plan you WOULD NOT be grandfathered in... Instead you'd get something like this: if you have 5 years of service when this plan is implemented then you will get 12.5% of your high 3 in grade at 20 years of service and then you will have 16.5% deposited in a TSP for 15 years which you may or may not collect at 20 years (depending on implementation, some say let it vest until you're 62+ years old, like an IRA)... completely different system that I did not sign up for...
     
  18. Jul 29, 2011 at 5:02 AM
    #38
    Devious6

    Devious6 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's a valid to compare military benefits to police, firemen and teachers. They are unionized - as are State and Federal employees. While several States have invalidated the collective bargaining practice, they have, for years had the protection of a union grievance process and collective bargaining.

    The military doesn't have any of that. And, if you don't like your salary or benefits in those other professions, you can quit. You can't walk away from the military when you don't get as pay raise or the government cuts your benefits.

    I'm not saying that any of those professions are not important, sometimes dangerous or worthy of their salaries. All I'm saying is that they have options and representation that members of the military and their families don't.

    I would bet that if one took the time to break out the total costs to the DoD budget for retirees versus other programs like VA benefits, you'd find that retirement is a smaller amount. The reality is that a small percentage of military members remain to retirement compared to the total number who serve. Just a guess, but it seems sensible. If DoD creates a vesting system where everyone would get some amount of payout, I can't see how that would reduce the overall cost.

    Would more people stay longer. I doubt it. It's not the pay that brings people into the Services, nor is that what keeps them in. The risks, frustrations and hardships certainly are not equal to the salary we draw.

    Just my $.02.
     
  19. Jul 29, 2011 at 5:27 AM
    #39
    T@co_Pr3runn3r

    T@co_Pr3runn3r XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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    I say politicians should be a candystriper volunteer thing, then we'd get some shit that would help or actually improve things instead of the opposite. Their damn pay/benefits should be the first thing cut when they fail to represent us and run the gov the way we are told to and mandated to run our shit. No laws or changes are acceptable that they themselves do not have to live by. This seperate set of rules contradiciting the set we are to go by is ridiculous bullshit. Oh sure, I know I'm free to go live somewhere else if I don't like what is going on here but that's the same lame concept that has everyone else coming here to overrun this country. Not doing that. I'm also free to stay and voice my digust with our elected officials not doing what they were hired to do and ignoring the will of the majority of law abiding hard working actual citizens.
     
  20. Jul 29, 2011 at 5:48 AM
    #40
    Blumpkinson

    Blumpkinson Fuelled by plutonium and wild animals

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    X2... this might sound incredibly naive, but how can they sleep at night? Cutting things from the men and women that protect our freedom/country, while they get wealthier and continue to disgrace themselves with ridiculous scandals. It's pathetic that they feel worthy of their salaries for clearly having no clue how to fix our problems. Cutting money from teachers/ military should be at the very bottom of the list. When our country clearly has huge education problems and backstabbing the people that protect us is just ridiculous.
     
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