Firewall Tubing

How much caster do the Camburg arms provide?

I guess my question would be why sell the Camburg to get JD UCAs when they still won’t match your DK lowers? Both use uniballs.

 

You can always go with a lesser offset wheel which wouldn’t change it too much. I plan to swap my front wheels to a lower offset. I’ll have to run spacers until I swap the axle.

 

I'd have to reach out to Camburg. They don't specify how much.. just increased.

And I thought because when running the JD pivots it was ideal to run the specific .25" JD UCAs. At least that's how I'm understanding it.. but if the Camburg uppers are the same or similar.. then yeah.. I wouldn't need them.. I could just do the pivot kit. And if all aftermarket uppers are similar to each other in that regard.. than my most ideal combo would be to get the DK uppers to match my current DK lowers and also get the JD pivot kit?

And that's why I don't want to go down that road. Would need to run an aftermarket axle because I refuse to run wheel spacers. Just not worth it. I'd rather really fine tune my MT setup.

 

JD sells .25 and .75 arms. My guess is the 0.75 is closer to the Camburg and DK arms which push that knuckle back just a smidge more to get the addtl caster. If you add the JD lower kit and push it forward with 0.75 maybe the caster is too high. It might be worth posting on the JD thread to see who is running DK or Camburg arms in stock width with the pivot to see if they're getting the clearance they wanted (It may be buried in the thread). I have DKs and lean towards cutting the rear of my wheel well, mainly to save money since everything else is good, but I dread the work b/c it sounds like a real PITA. When I do get the time I'll do the PS first to avoid the wiring and then move to the DS.

 

I'm pro tubbing if you have the skills yourself because it doesn't cost much at all except for your own time. It's really not difficult either, just time-consuming. I haven't installed the lower pivot kit or inner fenders from JD but hearing about the install on tacomaworld, I would wager a bet that tubbing is easier than either of those installs. At least when just doing the firewall and front of the inner fenders, which is all I had to do.

edit: This is all I had to do with stock arms and 35s. Once I switched to super bumps then I would kiss the upper fender on a hard hit, but I never did that while crawling.

 

I think I'll be good once I make that first cut, and I'll have my buddy that is a much better welder nearby for moral support. So do you have the JD 2.25 LT but no lower pivots? Your front tire looks much further forward than mine and I have my rear cams maxed forward. Is yours simply the rear lower cams pushed forward and maybe the camera angle that makes it look more than it is?

 

Correct, I have the LT and no lower pivots. The kit itself pushes the tire 0.875" forward which is probably what you're seeing. For my cams, I have the rear one max outboard and the front one in the middle. So I could push the tire forward a little bit more if I moved that front cam all the way in but that would fuck up my camber. What pic are you looking at?

 

exactly, that's my understanding of it as well. I was going to post in there.. I do follow it... but yeah.. that thread moves fast and I didnt want to dirty it up even more. Might just reach out to JD and see. Sounds like we are in the same boat as well.. I'm torn on what path to take.. mostly because like you, its all new. I havent touched my LCA cams yet though. I did want to see how much clearance I could get and then just get the alignment decent. Sounds like it wont completely solve the problem though huh? so still.. either tubbing or the JD pivot and upper combo.

I'm on Super bumps as well, with the spacer on my DK lowers, and I just barely kiss the upper fenders as well.. but only while bombing down washes and hitting a rut.. but I do have a decent amount of preload to help in that department, so it could be worse realistically. Its crawling where I have the big issues, which is what we're mostly doing. I rub the firewall pretty good, especially while cranked. So that's also why I'm leaning towards just a tub.. I'm hoping I can get away with just the firewall and or very minimum trimming elsewhere.

That's kinda where I'm at. Just get the dudes over.. and have at it over a weekend.

 

That was the only time I would kiss the upper bit, hitting a rut during spirited driving. It sounds like you would be able to do a similar amount of tubbing as I did above and be set for 99% of what you're doing. Each side took me about 6-8 hours and the second side went much faster because I made a larger initial cut since I knew what I needed.

 

That first pic on your build page.

I also have the super bumps - I may need a little spacer. I would recommend moving your lower cams. I've done the garage alignment many times simply b/c the shops always push the rear cams back which causes it to rub more. And messing with them definitely takes the voodoo out of the alignment. But it takes patience and time. I'm sure I'm out of spec, but it drives fine. Seems like I rub a lot more - definitely in reverse backing out of my sloped driveway and a lot on the trails turning while crawling. I'm sure tubbing will clear it. I'm going to notch a few more home welding projects and take a crack at it soon enough.

 

@XPOTRPR is sounds like you're already on 35s? It's always interesting to hear different people's expectation when it comes to the topic. I am in no way interested in limiting my suspension travel to fit a bigger tire. IMO it's counterproductive to spend a bunch of money to get max travel and them limit things because of tire size. To each their own though, neither way is right or wrong. Also, the amount of lift you have (preload) does not prevent rubbing. It simply changes your ride height. The geometry remains the same, assuming no other variable changes, so you may not rub on the daily but you're going to have similar issues when you cycle regardless of how much lift you have.

Tubbing is going to be your cheaper option out of everything IF you have the resources. I am not prone to do the job often due to the high risk of things going wrong. It's very easy to start a fire and sheet metal is a PITA to work with/weld. It's completely doable though and I'm glad I had mine done, although my tube is much more extreme than @EatSleepTacos is.

I ran factory bumps and rubbed the inner fender on hard hits. Slow speed crawling wasn't an issue at all, it was the high speed stuff that caused most issues.

 

Didn't we determine that was because you initially didn't realize you needed the bump stop spacer so your tire was going way higher than it needed to? I'll definitely agree that doing any tubbing on that upper fender turns the job from "easy but tedious" to "fuck sheet metal's mom". I'm glad I didn't have to cut into that, aside from the front corners.

 

Ahh gotcha. I had way too much lift in that pic which may cause some deception. Here's another dead on side pic of how it sits now. My fenders are trimmed pretty aggressively too which may play a role.

 

The bump stop spacer is just limiting wheel travel so yes and no. I could have, and did in the interim due to the simplicity to get the truck back on the road, used the spacer to limit my up travel but you're sacrificing the potential of the suspension by doing so. If you're trying to optimize an MT kit then you should be more focused on maxing out the uniball/ball joint than where your tire rubs and cutting accordingly.

At the time that all of this was realized, I had planned on finding some shocks that wouldn't bottom out before the bump stop so I could remove the larger bump stop spacer but ended up going with the JD 2.25" kit and LCA relocation and scrapping that project.

 

Good to know on the time estimates. It does sound like a tub is in my future.. which is fine.

i have been reading and researching the at home alignments and have the materials necessary to do them. I just havent set aside the time to start messing with it. I'll start here and see what it nets me.

Correct Sir. and I know.. I know. that's why I'm here talking to you fine gentlemen.. lol Truck is currently on 35s with 2.5 Kings and 700lb coils, DK lowers, Camburg Uniball uppers, TC gussets everywhere and preload to keep it stiff to help from hard bottoming out. I'm still learning suspension dynamics and all that jazz, but this was the best combo and adjustment for me at the time. The truck is not built for speed anymore.. its a house.. so slow crawling is all we really do anymore. I want to get the clearance so I can cycle as much as I can, and get a lower ride height as well. if I do have to limit some up travel, I'm ok with that.. as anything will be better than what I have now for a setup. I'm here for learnin!



I appreciate all the info and feedback guys. The truck is pretty much at its final state, especially weight wise, so I'm now trying to finally get this pig sorted and dialed and correct all my mistakes and bandaids over the years. lol

 

Oh, I thought it had to do with the LCA design and the spacer put it back to where it needed to be so it would engage where it needed to. Kinda like on my 2.25 I had to add a 1/2" spacer so the upper uniball wouldn't max out under compression.

Knowing what I know now, the best way to tub would be to remove bumps and put in the shock with no coil and tub either with the upper uniball maxed out or the shock bottoming out, whatever comes first.

 

Every truck varies a little bit from usage, etc as these frames are so flimsy but I initially put the tire on and started cutting with the uniball maxed out as I initially was trying to make clearance while fully utilizing what the suspension was capable of. I later added the shock and realized I was going to have issues with the bump stop height. Something along those lines. This was a long time ago. haha.

 

Sounds like I really just need to pull shocks and bumps and cycle it all and see what needs to get cut out. And if I need/want to.. throw the bump in and use that as my up travel limiter? Plus some messing with the LCA cams and do an at home alignment?

 

The problem with cycling with the bump is you can't replicate the amount of load applied while driving which creates high amount of variance. I prefer to use metal to metal, typically uniball/balljoint limitation, as my cut reference and work backwards from there so I don't have to do it again later.

 

For sure, I get it.. Dynamic load vs Static (or close to I guess). I would see how much needed to come out with the bumps out, and if needed, limit some of that up travel with the bumps in and then cut. I know its not ideal.. but that would still work in theory right? I'm just loosing some up travel. I know I wont be bombing down washes anymore like I used to, so if I dont get ALL of it out of the way for a true hard, dynamic hit.. I'm ok with that.. since the chances of that scenario happening are very slim nowadays. Am I completely dumb in my reasoning? I figured if I could net some clearance where it really needs it now (at the firewall) and use bumps to limit some of the up travel.. I think it would be ok for the scenarios the truck see's now and my driving habits.. at least in my newb head.