Fishtailing tacoma in the snow

Showboating pass.

 

I don't need to go back and quote all of the nonsensical stuff you've said. It's all here for everyone to read as many times as they want. You are just one of those "up is down, right is left" kinds of folks looking for some attention. It would make no difference to me if you weren't accusing others of giving unsafe advice by trying to help the OP understand how to engage his 4wd. Why don't you go start your own thread about the intricacies of anti-lock braking systems? I don't remember the OP asking any questions about that, and it's quite clear that his issue was not getting the truck into 4x4 to begin with because he didn't lock the hubs. The only unsafe advice flying around here is you telling him not to use 4x4 when he's fishtailing his truck down the road in the snow. You are either completely out of your depth on this or you are just trolling and aren't humble enough to admit you are wrong

 

So, where was that ? You have an actual quote...or just making up crapolla, again.

 

I mean, he thinks a rally driver and instructor is wrong...

 

Why are you guys $h!t talking. Use PM please

 

Utah Commercial Driver's Handbook



California Commercial Driver's Handbook



They both say almost the exact same thing due to being based off of the same Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.

 

TLTR

What do they say?

 

Or you’re still stuck on that huh

 

Whelp, since this thread has gone all over the place, I'm just going to dump a video here. It's fun, It's related to the thread and hopefully you'll be entertained and you'll be saying "No you moron!" more than you already have from reading this thread. I present to you, people driving on ice:

https://youtu.be/gY0gda12pXg

 

This thread has created a new question in my mind, in a truck with no abs, if you start sliding on ice, should you pump brakes or go into neutral and just steer and try to make it to the end of the ice patch (no brakes)?

 

Pump and steer the best you can.

 

Why would you remove engine braking? Always pump the brakes, also you need to be in gear you never know when you need to mash the gas to avoid something, even sliding on ice.


This thread is great LOL

 

Absolutely without question that is correct

 

I only ask this because if you don't pump, you have static friction with the front tires for longer even if you don't slow down. So in my mind, on a flat area with no one in front of me, would it be better to only steer until the ice ends. (I would take out engine braking because it causes force on the wheels and that makes you more likely to break loose if I was to only steer)

Thank you for the quick replies

 

Sometimes some throttle cause one must send it

 

To correct sliding, floor it and turn wheel all the way in the other direction. Make sure your truck has a high center of gravity first tho.

In all reality, I just slightly turn the other way, no gas. I use 4wd when turning out of places when it’s bad, but I always go by if you need 4wd at that speed, your probably going too fast. Stoplights turns and low speed stuff is where 4wd comes in. Easy on brakes. Low speed is key to suspected areas

 

There is no one answer, because it really depends on the situation.

If you are on a slick spot, and you don't need to stop, don't touch the brakes. If there is a clear path through it, just take your foot off the accelerator and steer through. The more braking you do the less steering control you have. If there is not a clear path, and you need to stop, I have found it best to apply steady pressure on the brakes. If it breaks loose, let off, then re-apply gently. You can apply more brake pressure if you are stopping in a straight line, just as long as you don't apply so much that is starts to slide. If you need to turn while you are slowing down, apply only as much brakes as you have to because the harder you brake the less you will be able to steer. Many people have been taught to pump the brakes, but in practice I have found all that does is increase the stopping distance because you are only braking half the time.

 

If you have a manual and you can slow down enough to downshift without breaking traction (if done too soon you can lose the rear) I would recommend that too so when you lift off the brake/accelerator you have the engine also slowing you down while you steer.

 

It depends. (Yay I'm back). Trying to condense 30 years of driving on ice to a post... Think of it this way.

Every tire has at all times, 100% of available friction to do 3 things. Accelerate, stop, and steer. That 100% is less sometimes than others, but you always only have 100. That is the coefficient of friction and it depends completely on your tires and the ground interacting. Absolutely nothing in your truck changes that.

So on dry roads, icy roads, doesn't matter, straight line you can use as much of that 100 to accelerate as you can. The moment you send MORE power to the wheels than the COF, they spin. If you're trying to stop in a straight line, the moment you send more breaking power than the cof can handle, you slide.

If you are using 90% to brake, you have 10% left to steer. The moment you cross 100, you slide again. And if you are using exactly 100 to steer, touch the brakes and you slide again. It's all a balancing act between performance and loss of control.

A locked/sliding tire is not a braking tire. It's not a steering tire. It has to shed enough energy to do below that to let the brakes actually work and also allow some energy to go towards steering. That takes a while to happen. The point of abs is to keep you below the 100 Mark by rapidly pulsing the brakes do you can have a little stopping and a little steering.

Anything you do that results in a tire sliding means you are entirely at the whim of Newton's 1st law. Which means you just slide straight into whatever is ahead of you because you have exceeded 100 and now simple physics is in control.

On to 4wd. 4wd is only 4wd sometimes. With a standard open diffs you alternate between 4wd, and 2wd depending on the traction left/right. In a straight line, all wheels having equal traction all 4 wheels do almost the same amount of work. But put one wheel on ice and you just removed that entire axle from being able to accelerate. So you're in 2wd. That might be fwd it rwd, but only 2 wheels can work. Put 1 front and 1 rear on ice and you've got 0wd as you'll have 1 wheel on either sale just spinning like crazy and the wheel that actually has traction doing nothing. Lockers change that, but different topic.

Steering though, if you put 1 front wheel on ice and 1 on dry, you still can steer, just roughly 50% as well. And you have 3 wheels that can brake. Put both on ice, rear on dry and you can end up with no steering but the rears can still brake.

Steering wise on slick surfaces, 4wd generally wins. Even with little traction having wheels under power pulling you in 1 direction will usually find little moments of traction to affect your otherwise straight skid. The downside is your rears will also be under power and continue trying to push you straight. But it's better than nothing.

Rwd in a spin (because you have a4wd but forgot to lock your hubs) is yet another matter. You have NO steering because your front are sliding and also can't pull, your rear can't stop because it is sliding, and your engine is exacerbation the problem by sending more power than the cof can handle.

So the best you can do is turn into the spin and push the clutch (assuming a manual). That removed the engine from the equation, the front wheels can find little bits of traction to help, and the rears can act as an anchor. Every little moment of traction the rears find will start to move the rear end the other way offered this combo can pull you out of a skid. But it takes practice. It's fun practice though.

It's not nearly as easy with an auto. However in all cases a skid is only controllable once the energy being sent to the wheels drops below the cof so the tires can actually work. So removing power to the wheels is generally the 1st step.

And I'm totally ignoring specific off road circumstances where heavy throttle can be the fix to keeping you in the trail.

Driving on snow and ice are 2 different but similar things. Snow is easier to stop in and can be easier to steer. It can also just suck you right off the road. Snow can be harder to get started in, but sometimes it's easier. And then you get a layer of black ice hidden under fresh snow and you have a whole other list of things to deal with. But that list often results in a tow truck and a speed for conditions ticket. So slow way down and don't get yourself into a mess to start with.

It honestly takes a lifetime of doing it to do it well, and most at best get to the point of just not completely sucking at it. And many never even get that good at it.

So my advice is to do what I did. Find an empty parking lot and practice. Spend decades gaining experience. You lock your hubs in so you can switch 2 and 4 when you need it and they stay locked until the roads are totally dry. Your mpg will go down a bit but if your driving a taco it already sucks. Then lock again when it snows. 4wd with open diffs is completely fine on mixed roads, even dry sections unless youre doing tight turns. And having it available is always better than not


Then say F all this and move to Florida. I'm a real estate broker I'll help you find a house.