Frame Replacement Fail

go to another dealer. they obviously dont know how to put back together a truck.

 

To be perfectly honest, this is absolutely ridiculous. They cannot guarantee that the body of your truck will be level? Really? Sounds like a wonderful deal to me, Toyota sells you a truck, the frame rots out. Toyota takes the truck back and replaces the frame BUT you now have a crooked truck when the procedure is complete. Now Toyota doesn’t have to fix it properly, then why bother fixing it at all? Why would the body of your truck have to be shimmed? The body was straight on the old frame. The body sits on mounts that are riveted to the frame, if the frame is straight, the mounts are bad. You have a bad frame; sounds like you got a frame that was built on a Friday afternoon. Shimming the body will not “fix” the problem but it may make your body look straighter.
I have mixed feelings about this issue now. I’m not sure how many times I would want my truck to get a frame swap. Deep down inside we both know that the true problem is the replacement frame. However, how many frames do you roll under the truck only to find that the truck is still crooked? What about if the next frame is worse? I would hate having my truck torn apart time after time, just to find a good frame. Let the dealership try shimming the body, see how it looks. I honestly do not know how you can shim a body 2inches, that’s A LOT!

 

What scares me is I do NOT think it is the dealership at fault; the dealership doesn't make the frames. Toyota or an outside company manufactures the frames as the replacement frame for the trucks included in the frame recall, and ships them to the dealerships as needed. The dealerships simply put the truck on the new frame; there really isn’t much they can screw up to make the truck be as crooked as this one is. As he stated measurements show the frame is straight (meaning the two main rails), the body mounts which are riveted to the frame is what I believe is off. It sounds like the truck drives down the road straight, it is purely a cosmetic problem. However, there is still a major quality control problem. With today's modern technology, every frame leaving the plant should be the same. There is no way the frame is bent, as this type of problem could make the truck drive crooked. Also if the frame was bent the body would not be off by as much as 1-2 INCHES. The frame was manufactured poorly, anyone know where the replacement frames are manufactured? Are they in the U.S. or are they imported?

 

dauange,

Lets try and keep this simple ..

1) do you have ANY pictures of your truck BEFORE the re-frame....hopefully from a side view...

2) once you bring these in and SHOW the SERVICE MANAGER what your truck was before,it should light a "Fire" under his A$$....

3) I went through re-frame without a single burp and to see how some dealers are still not "GETTING IT" certainly irritates me....

4) If the "dealer" still plays "STUPID"...get on the phone with your TOYOTA regional office,ask them what they can do...if they still can't help ask them if the local rep would like to comment when the TV crew interviews you ...


Jeff, the "Frames" come in on their own pallet and unless the JB HUNT driver is an absolute animal these frames should not be "wacked" at all...this is a dedicated account and neither side wants to see anything go wrong; TOYOTA or JB

 

Somebody needs to get the truck up on a rack and find out what the issue really is. Your original post said new leaf springs and shocks / struts? I'd suspect those first.

 

I would be more curious why it is off now instead of bringing it back and having them SHIM it until it looks right, it could be a cover up on a problem that might come up later on

 

sounds like a contradiction and why dont they just get you a new frame

 

I'm not hearing anyone saying they have experienced this too which makes me both feel better and worse. I feel better that this isn't "normal" and worse that "there is no clear solution".

They said they won't try a new frame cause they have have tried that in the past with no success.

To go over what is new: new frame and mounting hardware, new leaf springs, new Bilstein 5125 in rear, new Bilstein 5100 in front with old springs, and misc other stuff like brake lines, fuel lines, etc. Drove like crap before and drives great now which is attributable to the fact that the struts and shocks were dead.

Anyone heard of quality issues on the 5100 and 5125?

I'm going to talk to some other dealers in the area and see if any of them have experienced this issue without saying the dealership that I'm currently dealing with (hopefully they won't cover each other's asses). Depending on how that goes, I'll call corporate.

 

If I had to make a guess, they mixed up some left and right side parts. Most parts are the same part number for both sides, but going through the parts list, some are completely different part numbers for each side even though they look the same in the diagram.

I really dont know how assembled the frame is when it gets in, but if some guy doesn't know his right from his left, or just doesn't double check his part numbers on assembly, I could very well see something like that happen.

Simple mistake, sure, but still not acceptable to send it home like that...

Its obviously something that they're doing wrong at their location since they've had 3 like that so far

 

They've much more than three messed up. They just put a 2nd frame in the first 3 with no correction.

 

I can just see the resale value of our tacomas going down the toilet,when these reframe problems become public

 

Here's my idea the body shop at the dealer that swapped the frame should be able to put it on there frame machine and take lazer measurements that are required when a frame is damaged due to an accident, therefore they know what has to be done to pull it back into spec's, now your vehicle has not been accident damaged, so if the measurements are off as they surely will be how is that dealer going to lie his way out of that.

 

^^ very good idea. I spent alot of time under the truck last night and everything measures square between the bed/body and the frame. On a separate thread, I've been asking for thoughts on the Billi 5125's and new leaf springs that have been installed as part of the frame swap. I'm becoming more convinced that it is a problem with the leaf springs supporting the weight unevenly. Going to take more measurements when I get home tonight to confirm.

 

if it's uneven springs, then your frame to ground measurements would indicate as such right?

I don't understand what the mystery is.. some point underneath the truck, the measurement from that point to the ground will show unevenness. That would be the culprit.

EDIT: I read where you say it's only the bed that's uneven. So does that mean if you look at the rear window and the top edge of the bed next to the cab you'll see the bed edge slopped un-evenly? From your pic, it looks like the bed and the cab are leaning the same amount.

Also, when comparing the gap between the rear bumper to the bed, does that show differences as well?

 

Some previous measurments I posted were less carefully measured than these. Starting from the front and Right = Passenger:
- Front bumper, the frame (ground to frame) is 3/8 to 1/2" higher on the right.
- Ground to highest point of front wheel wells is 1/2" higher on the right.
- Ground to where the lower control arm is mounted on frame is 1/4" high on right.
- Ground to frame midway between front and rear wheels is 3/4" high on right
- Ground to highest point of rear wheels is 1" high on right.
- Ground to top of tailgate is 1 1/8" high on right.

At the points where I've measured distances between the frame and body/bed, they appear to be the same left and right. Rear bumber is level with bed, bed is level with back of cab, and front bumper appears level with engine compartment but there aren't any really good reference points.

Body/bed is higher off the ground on the entire right side of the truck but it gets worse as you go towards the rear.

 

How about measuring the arch of the rear leafs? Measure from bottom of bed to axle on both sides.

 

hell.. check to make sure all the tires are the same size

 

Well, it sounds like its definitely in the back of the truck, so do the following measurements and see if you can narrow it down a little more. The front sounds pretty close to normal considering you have battery and fuel on the drivers side.

From under the truck, try measuring the distance from the top of the frame (not the mounting brackets, but the actual frame) to the bottom of the bed right above the rear axle. If those are the same/very close, your bed is likely to be on the frame correctly. If not, than its mounting related. (this measurement is small enough that you'd be able to see an inch difference, but just do it anyway)

If the above measurement is very close to the same on both sides, measure the distance from the axle to the bottom of the bed. If thats where the problem is, it should be leaf spring related.

I guess you could also check to make sure your shocks aren't frozen by bouncing on the bumper a bit and see everything moves. Shocks really dont hold any weight, as they're just there in order to absorb/slow down the bounce of the springs. If your truck is able to bounce and stops bouncing after you stop, dont worry about the shocks.

Aside from that, make sure your tires are the same and have the same air pressure.

Of course I am making the assumption that the frame is straight as well.

 

- Distances between the frame and bed all match from left to right.
- Bed to leaf spring shackles all match left to right.
- Gap between frame and bump stops is 3" on left and 4" on right. This tells me that either the right springs are too stiff or the left are too weak.

I thought problem solved. So to test, I cobbled together some stuff and jacked up the frame over the axle on the left side 1". The bump stop gap is now equal. HOWEVER the tailgate is now 1/2" high on the right instead of 1 1/8" that it was originally.

So I thought maybe the issue is the springs AND bent frame. I jacked up the truck and put the frame on jack stands placed just forward of the front leaf spring shackles. I then pulled the rear tires and let the rear axle fully sag. Since the frame is now resting on the front suspension and stands set about mid length down the truck, a straight frame should be perfect at the bumper. AGAIN the frame at the bumper and tailgate are 1/2" high on the right. My 8' level shows the garage floor to be perfectly flat and level left to right and only sloping towards the driveway meaning all my measurements to the ground are valid. The other thing that points to the frame is that when you are eye level with the top of the bed, you can see that either the front left corner is above the plane of the other 3 corners or the back left is below. Probably below based on the frame measurements meaning that the frame dips down on the left side and is pulling that corner of the bed with it.

I figure leaf springs are part of it but the frame has to be fubar too. Going to call the dealer again with all of this and see if their tune changes. I'll try and convince them to try the laser frame machine in the body shop that was suggested previously.

Any holes in my logic?