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Front diff water intrusion?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by SR-71A, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. Jul 20, 2021 at 5:08 AM
    #1
    SR-71A

    SR-71A [OP] Define "Well-Known Member"

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    I finished up most of the big items for the 90k service this weekend. Everything looked great except the oil that came out of the front diff. That stuff wasnt doing so hot. Looked like water to me. And a fine layer of sludge settled out in the sample I saved to send to Blackstone.

    So the question is where/how is the water getting in? No leaks that I can see on either CV or the pinion seal. And the breather still seems to be attached. Took the breather barb out of the hose and put a little compressed air into it, could feel it coming out the drain plug.

    Also worth noting that I never really do any deep water crossings. Maybe two or three times since the 60k service but thats it. And even then those were only about slider deep. Usually its just dirt roads with lots of puddles.

    20210716_130257.jpg
    20210716_130820.jpg
     
  2. Jul 20, 2021 at 5:27 AM
    #2
    ROAD DOG

    ROAD DOG Well-Known Member

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    not sure what U ask

    water vs oil ....................

    Only essentially 2 prominent ways for water to get into axles .......diffs.....transfer cases

    a seal design for oil is NOT very effective against water

    U mentioned water up to the ‘ sliders ‘ ( thats DEEP !!)...............thats water OVER the axle line regardless of size o tyre

    water will attempt to get past ANY seal or INTO the ‘ breather/ vent ‘

    whereby there is NO evidence oil is attempting to flow/mist out of same location

    even a miniscule amount might get ‘ In ‘ power washing ( high pressur hose ) at the car wash

    few actually extend the ‘ breather/vent ‘ orifices at the transmission.......transfer cases & rear axle

    you have proof !! water got IN
     
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  3. Jul 20, 2021 at 5:34 AM
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    uurx

    uurx Well-Known Member

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    is there a slice/gash in the breather hose somewhere along the line?
     
  4. Jul 20, 2021 at 5:39 AM
    #4
    EatSleepTacos

    EatSleepTacos Well-Known Member

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    Just to make sure, you checked the correct breather, right? There are two on the front diff, one on the ADD actuator and one on the diff itself.
     
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  5. Jul 20, 2021 at 5:39 AM
    #5
    fxntime

    fxntime Well-Known Member

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    Sudden temp drops due to even a couple water crossings can quickly pull water into an axle or differential.
     
  6. Jul 20, 2021 at 7:04 AM
    #6
    SR-71A

    SR-71A [OP] Define "Well-Known Member"

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    Good point, Im not 100% sure that its not. That hose is buried pretty deep up in there and is hard to get to fully without moving some stuff. I did notice that it goes rubber, steel hard line, and back to rubber before it actually gets to the diff. Didnt notice anything out of place (like rust or cracking) but it seems like an odd design with two extra points to fail.
    I think so. The larger of the two that terminates on the driver side near the battery.
     
  7. Jul 20, 2021 at 7:09 AM
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    EatSleepTacos

    EatSleepTacos Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's the correct one. The ADD one is a much skinnier tube.

    Did you peek under and make sure the breather is still seated? It's weird, it goes diff -> short rubber hose -> metal tube -> long rubber hose up into engine bay -> breather. So it's possible that down near the diff, one of those rubber to metal tube connections came free. When I regeared, that has to come undone and it's a PITA to get it back on correctly since there's so little slack.

    upload_2021-7-20_10-9-4.jpg
     
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  8. Jul 20, 2021 at 8:43 AM
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    SR-71A

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    Yup thats what I was mentioning. Seems like an extra two points of failure having that intermediate hard line. I assume its for mounting purposes, but idk.

    In any case I was able to see up in there enough / with the help of a borescope to confirm all three connections look solid. But like @uurx said maybe its a freak cut in the line somewhere I cant see.

    Wonder if I could smoke test it..? Doubt the seals would like much pressure being put on them though so that might be risky
     
  9. Jul 20, 2021 at 8:47 AM
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    uurx

    uurx Well-Known Member

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    I had a nice cut on the breather hose for the front diff actuator, two actuators later I finally discover where the water was sneaking in :anonymous::facepalm:

    i was surprised how much water could get past that slice in the rubber hose
     
  10. Jul 21, 2021 at 5:54 AM
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    SR-71A

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    Thats a bummer haha
     
  11. Jul 29, 2021 at 6:02 AM
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    SR-71A

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    Sent out a sample to Blackstone Labs this morning. Guess we'll see how bad it is when they send me the report back
     
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  12. Jul 29, 2021 at 6:34 AM
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    uurx

    uurx Well-Known Member

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    is this the first time you drain this diff since that huge stump hit you took to the cab? that must have jolted the truck hard I am sticking to my guess there is a gash in a breather in a spot thats impossible to see without removing major parts
     
  13. Jul 29, 2021 at 8:01 AM
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    SR-71A

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    Damn, Im impressed you remember that debacle haha. Yes that happened last year so this would be the first time Im draining the front diff since. Not sure if that would have been enough to damage anything other than the floor, but I will definitely have to take some stuff apart and have a good look at the whole breather line before winter hits. Im betting you are right theres a crack somewhere.
     
  14. Aug 12, 2021 at 5:33 AM
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    SR-71A

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    Results back from Blackstone make me feel better about the internals of the front diff. Oddly enough the rear diff looked way worse in terms of iron content (480 ish)
    upload_2021-8-12_8-33-45.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  15. Aug 12, 2021 at 5:42 AM
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    EatSleepTacos

    EatSleepTacos Well-Known Member

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    That's good to hear. Have you had a chance to dig into the issue more?
     
  16. Aug 12, 2021 at 6:04 AM
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    SR-71A

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    Unfortunately not between work and other BS. I will this fall though
     
  17. Feb 6, 2022 at 1:37 PM
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    dk_crew

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    well - I'm stumped -- 488s are awesome. I'm a few miles into the break-in period ... BUT I have a leak and I'm trying to find the best path to get my front diff tube - the small one - re-connected to the metal outlet pipe on the diff? Without dropping the diff again? I feared it was the the gasket but as I contort my body to get a better look I can see that I must have pulled the short vent tube from the diff to the bracket during the re-install.

    here is the end of my tube that SHOULD be I'm the metal outlet of the diff that @EatableTaco circled in red in the quoted post. :annoyed:

    upload_2022-2-6_15-31-57.jpg

    :annoyed: SO -- I think any sane person at this point jumps onto TW to see what say the tribe. And I stumble upon this and a few other threads (adding @6 gearT444E because he commented on similar threads and helped me with the crazy 12mm bolt) talking about the breaker. But I haven't seen any real tips on how to get that re-connected.

    Any thoughts? I may loosen the diff bolts and see if I can create some room. If all else fails I'll pull and re-install the diff, but I'd like that to be my last resort.

    THANKS!
     
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  18. Feb 6, 2022 at 1:39 PM
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    EatSleepTacos

    EatSleepTacos Well-Known Member

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    I would undo the two front arms of the diff because that’ll lower the diff down enough to get up in there. No need to fully drop it. Just support it by a floor jack and slowly lower it until you get enough room. The rear most mounting point and cv axles and everything else will be enough to keep it from falling out of the truck.
     
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  19. Feb 6, 2022 at 1:46 PM
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    dk_crew

    dk_crew Well-Known Member

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    thanks -- I'm going to try that tonight. fortunately I'm very aware that the rear mounting point and cvs will keep it from falling out b/c putting that thing back in was quote a feat -- and not something I look forward to having to do again :) I'll give this a go and report back. THANKS.
     
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  20. Feb 6, 2022 at 1:57 PM
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    6 gearT444E

    6 gearT444E Certified Electron Pusher

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    I’d take off the front mount bolts as suggested, that vent is a terrible design. What’s worked for me to get that back on is a long set of hose pliers because I can’t contort my hand onto that tight space. Something like these here.

    2024FC4A-0794-472C-B51B-A773ABA1BF9A.jpg Why Toyota made that line so short is beyond me. I’m sure they put it together before the engine was in so it was easy access at the assembly line.
     

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