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Funny rear brake question

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by charijack, May 2, 2018.

  1. May 5, 2018 at 4:13 PM
    #41
    toydiver

    toydiver New Member

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    I think your drivers side drum is working perfectly....the rear drum brakes adjust the more or less your payload. They don’t get used hardly at all. The front brakes are 80% of your stopping power. The passenger side rear drum is also your parking brake. Check to see if you have no binds.....seems to me the passenger side is wearing out quickly.
     
  2. May 5, 2018 at 5:12 PM
    #42
    charijack

    charijack [OP] Member

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    I agree, it's weird. Passenger side is more than half way gone, dust everywhere. Close inspection of the driver side shoes looks like they're only partly scored by the drum (?!?) and no dust, just trace oily residue. Anyhow, did the bleed and complete fluid flush, seemed to get more air out of the line going to drivers drum.

    And I will correct my earlier statement regarding brake performance after my flush/bleed, the brakes are working better now. Today did a daylight, highway speed re-test of the brakes. Was able to partially lock the fronts at 65 mph, which is a substantial improvement over before. Could never do that previously. It's been raining on/off since I did the flush/bleed so couldn't properly test until today. I'll take the drums off in a couple hundred miles and re-check the wear patterns. I'm still in planning stages for rear axle seal replacement, and I really appreciate all the great info other people including Timmah! have put out there on that.
     
  3. May 6, 2018 at 9:48 AM
    #43
    frizzman

    frizzman Well-Known Member

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    both sides are the emergency brake. the cable from the cab connects to the passenger side run but when it's pulled it pulls the driver's side cable to offset equal amount.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. May 9, 2018 at 8:57 AM
    #44
    ProForce

    ProForce IG @proforce.expeditions OB#5411

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    Call me crazy, but i still don't think your axle, seals, or bearings have ANYTHING to do with your brake issue. I believe you have a bad cylinder and a ton of air in the system. Does your reservoir get low?

    There is no gear oil in the drum, indicating that the brakes are not being compromised by oil.

    Three brake components were shiny clean, indicating they have never even engaged. Oil wouldn't cause them to not engage, it would simply cause them to be less effective. There would be oil everywhere inside with groom and nasty brake dust. Regardless it this just started or has been long term, this would be true.

    We know air was in the line. We know the cylinder moved less then normal. We know the shoes are not engaging the drums, and we know there isn't a ton of oil inside. Nothing here points to any type of seal failure what so ever.
     
  5. May 9, 2018 at 9:59 AM
    #45
    Timmah!

    Timmah! Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to read post #6 and you'll probably rethink what you wrote.
     
  6. May 9, 2018 at 11:31 AM
    #46
    ProForce

    ProForce IG @proforce.expeditions OB#5411

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    You make a great point. It's still WAYYY too clean in there in my opinion and we saw how much air was in the lines and also the limited movement of the cylinder. Ill accept that their may be a little gear oil on the shoes, but i also think there is another issue. Just my .02 though
     
  7. May 9, 2018 at 11:50 AM
    #47
    Timmah!

    Timmah! Well-Known Member

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    Well, I reckon he has 2 problems.
     
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  8. May 9, 2018 at 2:16 PM
    #48
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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    How did you Jack up the truck? Jack stands under frame? The perportioning valve will be almost completely bypassed when the axle is sagging.
     
  9. May 16, 2018 at 4:23 PM
    #49
    charijack

    charijack [OP] Member

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    Nah, jack stands were under the shock spring brackets; axle supported. Still though, I had no idea there was such a valve, something I'll have to look into.

    I agree. And so here's the UPDATE for now: I drove it 750 miles since I flushed and re-bled the system (and recall, I do feel like an abnormal amount of air came out of that drivers side rear brake line when I did the flush. Much more air than the other brakes). So currently when I take the drum off, there is a new wear pattern to the brake. Now in drum/shoe life, 750 miles is nothing at all, but I'm pretty damn sure that the wear pattern is much increased. It was like-new when I took it off the first time, now at least there are score/wear marks on the outer edges of the shoes. Actually it looks like what people refer to as "seating" when talking about new pad/shoes

    Also, with regards the wheel cylinder, I had a helper, and now with a 6' iron cheater bar put between lug nuts fitted to the exposed drum, he couldn't move the axle with the brake applied, so I believe the wheel cylinder is functioning. We did also take the drums off both sides and apply the brakes (gently), and they appeared to be moving equally on both sides.

    And yes, I do. Getting more familiar with the drums/axles back there, I've realized there is a oily residue on the lower half of the drivers side just under where the axle meets the brake assembly. It's not pronounced or impressive, but there's a residue there. The axle seals are definitely failed.

    Overall my next steps/new plan is to drive it about 5,000 more miles and then re-check the wear pattern back there, and then to fit new brake shoes/re-surface the drums just to equal things out, plus/minus new wheel cylinders and axle seal repair, depending on how things look and how much time/money I have.
     
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  10. Mar 13, 2019 at 7:41 PM
    #50
    charijack

    charijack [OP] Member

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    Update here about my rear brake question after driving for an additional 8,000 miles: As some of you first suggested, seems like the problem was likely and axle seal (possibly compounded by a small amount of air in the system that needed to be bled). See here the updated pix, with much more oily residue evident than before, and still hardly any wear on the braking surface:
    IMG_0213.jpg
    And more:
    IMG_0215.jpg IMG_0217.jpg

    It's too bad, as seals are a much more involved repair than a wheel cylinder, but I guess I've known that since getting feedback on the thread. On a positive side note, I went back down to stock tire size from my 285s, and the brakes work tons better with the shorter radius regardless of this seal leak. I'll probably delay fixing the seals until I get some other things finished first, such as getting the timing belt done, which is due. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions on the issue above.
     
  11. Mar 15, 2019 at 8:25 AM
    #51
    Timmah!

    Timmah! Well-Known Member

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    You've got your priorities wrong in my opinion. Right now, you have a problem staring you straight in the face that is affecting the safety of your vehicle. Also, if you put other things in front of taking care of your axle seal problem, you are going to have to keep a close eye on your rear differential oil level until you get it fixed. With gear oil getting past the seal, it's now surrounding the bearing and slowly washing out the grease from the bearing. Once there's very little grease left, it's the gear oil from the differential that's keeping the bearing lubricated and not overheating. If you don't watch the oil level close enough and it drops down to a level that isn't lubricating the bearing sufficiently anymore, and you go for a long enough drive, the bearing will overheat and completely disintegrate ruining your axle, damaging the inside of your axle housing and leaving you stranded wherever it happens. How do I know this? This exact thing happened to a guy who drove from Auburn California to my house in San Jose California for a party I was throwing for our channel subscribers. Luckily for him, he made it to my house barely. Unfortunately for me, I spent a good part of the day working on this kid's rig because he ignored his leaking rear axle seal for too long.

    Your timing belt being "Due" is not more important than fixing your rear axle seal. Timing belts can last much much longer than we think, 200k miles and more. Is it smart to replace the timing belt and related wear components at a regular interval like every 100k? Sure it is. But, your preventative maintenance timing belt replacement shouldn't take priority over something that is affecting the proper braking of your vehicle and that could ultimately cause you a catastrophic failure if the bearing fails. It's your truck and your life but it's obvious to me and probably most others that you should take care of the issue that's staring you straight in the face. My two and a half cents.
     
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  12. Mar 15, 2019 at 8:44 AM
    #52
    knayrb

    knayrb Well-Known Member

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    I had a leaky seal on my '97 4Runner which probably is the same setup as your 2002 Tacoma. Actually with the differential oil getting into the drum the rear brake shoe it bound hard and would lock the wheel. I put in a new seal, topped off the differential oil, brake cleanered the entire drum assembly, verified the piston wasn't leaking, wire brushed all the components, put in new brake shoes, put everything back dry except for a little high temp grease on the star wheel thread, and it brakes perfectly.
     
  13. Mar 15, 2019 at 2:03 PM
    #53
    Jamesboy2233

    Jamesboy2233 95.5 sr5

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    i dont understand how axle seals and bearings go out are there specific events that kill them?

    mine have been overloaded, parked and driven underwater, spun up to max speed for an extended period of time, regularly reach very fast speeds, have been run a tid bit low on oil and are original

    no leaks no problems that some refer to as "1st gen bearing design flaws" wtf are they
     
  14. Mar 16, 2019 at 10:13 AM
    #54
    charijack

    charijack [OP] Member

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    Thanks for the response. I've thought about it, and you're right. I'll get on the seals and prioritize them, thanks again.

    This is good to know, I'm going to get into it.

    I'm not really sure what causes it. My truck has about 180k miles, quite a bit of time in desert sands, deep/prolonged beach sand driving, with 140k of those miles using tires with around 17% greater circumference and much greater weight. Maybe that's why?
     
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  15. Mar 21, 2019 at 3:22 PM
    #55
    penadam

    penadam Active Member

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    This is what happens if you drive too long on a bad wheel seal/bearing.
    mIkKyWbzRxecasniZ13lzWhwENQDPrI4ztQj5nkw_ae4c9b7ea5e549661fa0b3db6552afcab3d4aaf2.jpg

    Had a catastrophic seal failure (no previous leaks, but potentially a slowly failing bearing) about 400 miles from home. Drove back being careful to keep the diff topped up and to not use the brakes (gear oil swells brake shoes causing them to hang up on the drum) but found this when pulling it apart.

    If you have a failing seal, it's possible that your bearing is also on the way out. One failure mode of the seals is due to excessive axle movement caused by a bad bearing. While it's a lot more work to replace the bearing than just the seal, it's probably worthwhile to ensure you're not setting yourself up for another seal failure down the road.
     
  16. Mar 21, 2019 at 7:13 PM
    #56
    Aagill225

    Aagill225 Well-Known Member

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    Put the drum in have someone step I
    I’m the brake and see if you can turn the drum by hand.
    Someone may have put new parts on. It never seated the adjuster properly into the slot where the shoe is. I did that to myself when I rebuilt the rear brakes on mine.
     

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