Gangs as domestic terrorists...

I have a question for all since this seems to be a in depth topic of gang's and terrorism, could the united states government be considered in it's own right a terrorist cell. It has contributed in drug trafficking, arm's trafficking as well as coerced 2 civilization's of people( The native american's, The Hawaiian's) to be subdued by their beliefs and governent policies. The native americans and the Hawaiians both had their own form's of government/Monarchy. I myself have served in the military but am also a native Hawaiian, The Hawaiian people have for years been attempting to get the land that was wrongfully taken from us by force by threat of the united states navy and up till the term of Mr. Clinton had it been acknowledged in a court that the united states was wrong in taking the Hawaiian lands by threat and force? Let us see who of us can look at the whole picture? I myself voted yes that the gangs could be labeled as domestic terrorist.

 

and no I am not anti government but just a believer at looking at ones self before casting upon someone else and also looking at the entire picture. Especially since most of this country was founded upon Illegal immagration by english travelers who did not agree with their government's policies.

 

and the folks who founded it all those years ago are all dead. And I don't think theirs was "illegal" immigration.

Calling an entire nation/gov't a terrorist cell kinda smacks of tin foil hat material...and begs for a slippery slope to calling everyone a terrorist...which is an even bigger issue for me.

 

Sounds like its gana be a great paper. I recommend watching a documentary; I think its called "The worlds most dangerous gang", Its about MS-13.
Good Luck

 

And the folks who wrote the constitution are dead so does that mean it means nothing to us now? Just because someone who has taken part in an atrocious act is dead must it be forgiven, but when they write a set of policies that a nation lives upon it be remembered for years to come? Considering this land was governed by a set of laws when the englishmen came here and landed upon plymouth rock by a civilation of people who acknowledged the balance of life between people and nature that the government so desperately tries to protect to keep in balance. I find it interesting that a naive country found upon blood shed is so quick to condem those who try to better their lives because they them selves do not agree with goverment policies.

 

No-Because the principles the Constitution is written to embody are the principles this country is fighting everyday to stand for. Domestic terrorism is not on that list.

And at this point I'm lost.....We are talking about gangs and you are talking about people trying to better themselves?? I'm sorry but murdering people cause they live one block too far to the west or they are buddies with the wrong dude isn't bettering anything. And if you are talking about the Hawaiians trying to get there land back- I can't say anything cause I don't know anything about it...but I don't know many groups that are still being aggrieved by the gov't...to a fault at this point.

 

And if you read my first post and first question I was asking if the actions of the governement itself could be considered terrorism to some groups. Or a form of domestic terrorism.

 

Of course it can...You can consider it whatever you'd like. But like I said....I don't know NEARLY enuf about the US gov't/Hawaiian issues to be able to talk about it intelligently. I'm still not sure it would make sense to me if I did know more but...that's the way it goes I guess.

 

The US is not going to just give up Hawaii to the native Hawaiians(?) the constitution was made to protect the people from things that are immoral, not from greedy people. That's problem one. Problem 2 is people trying to retake the US because it should be "rightfully" there's. We have a ton of cultures in the US and the biggest reason the US is the way it is today is because we had a million immigrants trying to make something for themselves, we no longer have that and we are now, just another country looking at it's future.

Everyone looks out for themselves and thinks it would be so much easier to do thing's "themselves". And thus is why we kept the "states" and didn't just becomes "North America" So that the states can use the governors as mediators. If your governor is doing you wrong take it out on him, not the public.

I got orders to go to Hawaii and have had plenty of friends stationed there and i can't wait to go there just so the locals can call me "holly".... There are certain laws implemented to protect everyone in all states, it's called federal law. If you disagree with the government then you have the right to protest against it, you have the right to demonstration, so use it. Nothing in this world will be perfect, we vote on things cause they will benefit the most people, is ti right? NO but its the best way. It's much better than one person pushing his beliefs on us and making all of OUR decisions.

 

KAWAIANIANI, I understand your points of view. But you got to ask yourself, where would you be if "other peoples/white man" didn't ever set foot on the island, and if the US never occupied it? Would you have a job? Would you still have the greatest opportunities every American Citizen has to make themselves better, that other people form other countries don't have? The freedoms and rights, and knowing that you have one of the greatest militaries of all time protecting YOU and YOUR FAMILY? And all of the opportunities available for YOU?

No, with your words I don't get that impression.....the truth is that some other country would have taken over your island. Maybe communist China, or Russia, Japan?

You have to also ask yourself how you would be living right now if no one from outside ever set foot on Hawaii? Would you have a truck, or a house/apartment, hospitals, roads, stores, cell phones, etc? Would live in a hut? I'm not calling Hawaiians less of a culture, but anytime a group of people are isolated they get behind on advancements and technologies.

Just consider yourself lucky that you were born in such a beautiful place, and live in such a beautiful place. And are part of a great country made up of all different kinds of races and cultures.
Just try to look at how your life would be like on the other side of the pond? If you would rather have that, then by all means give everything away and move to an isolated island and tell me how it is.

By the way (not that it matters), there is new archaeological evidence that now suggest that Europeans were the first peoples to the Americas........they have found tools and spear points very similar to whats found in Europe. They are being found deeper in the ground in time from when people starting coming down from Alaska. Not that it's true, I'm just laying it out there........and it doesn't matter.

Not trying to make you mad or anything, just concerned when people think that America is some sort of terrorist organization? And this is only a different point of view so don't take offense.....have a good one.

 

Interesting topic since our nation was born of a domestic uprising two hundred plus years ago....We tend to forget in the modern age the treasonous acts our forefathers planned and acted upon the British empire. Should they be labeled as a Domestic Terrorist Organization as the original question asks? Or better yet would they be labeled that today??? That's an arguement for another day though...

I agree with others that better enforcement of the current laws would be sufficient to stop/control the damage that gangs cause. "Adding to" the strict laws that are in place such as the Patriot Act robs us step by step of our freedoms we so proudly and loudly declare as Americans...

 

Kawaianiani makes some good points in attitudes outside the established ideology of what we consider the red, white and blue. I worked in the sovereign nation of Seminole Indians for a period and had my naive thoughts of what I thought was accepted. I learned fast that I was labeled white boy and part of a nation that destroyed and enslaved their people in the process of domination. The American flag was considered the flag of an intruder...

My point of this is I grew up and learned to listen to not only my points but to the thought process behind what others think as well. Does this make it correct or did it make me agree with their ideology. No but I learned my thoughts are only an opinion in a sea of other opinions...

The answer truly was that the spoils go to the victor and that would be the American government. Not everything is as cut and dry as we would would like it to be...

 

Yea you might wanna research the patriot act some more.

The 4th amendment protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures, trust me I know. Patriot act bends the rules on notification of warrants, HOWEVER you still have to show probable cause to have a warrant issued...therefore making it reasonable.

And you do not have a right by trial by your PEERS...you have the right to an IMPARTIAL jury.

 

whoa,.. thats weird. i just saw a documentary on that gang today... pretty weird.

 

i vote no. you dont see the bloods, ms-13 or any gang, flying planes into buildings or blowing themselves up in the middle of a mall or hotel. gangs are just criminals who mostley kill each other.

 

I voted yes, I cannot stand low-life gang members, and I feel that they should be punished to the full-extent of the law.

On a side note, I wish people in general were smarter. If we didn't have so many IDIOTS buying drugs, the world would be a much nicer place. I don't know the stats, but look how much crime in this (or any country really) is drug related.

 

I think that terrorist are anyone that cause people to fear for their lives. so yes. Potentially

 

It's wonderful to see the intelligence pouring out on this topic by a large group of people from different area's. Its nice to see intelligence is alive and well and we can gain knowledge from one another in an indepth discussion.

 

as long as we can agree to disagree like adults Im still good with this, I got an A on the paper by the way...GO ME!

 

Agreed.