geekhouse23's "LIFE'S WAITING TO BEGIN" Overland & Home build and all the Adventures in between!

I got ya a housewarming gift bro. Ill bring it tonight. I think u will like

 

You da best, man!

 

Im trying

In the meantime, going to install cctv cameras, until i find something better paying

 

Hey man, if it helps pay the bills...

 

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHHH

 

- get replacement grade 8 bolt to replaced the one from BAMF that snapped in half; this Milwaukee impact is BEEF
- Install rear Diode Dynamics rear turn signals
- finish DIY tailgate cable mod
- SPINDLES!!!!!!
- retorque BAMF hanger bolts and test flex
- re-attempt replacement bumper hinge pin removal and swap for a good one; old one is seized

Was able to get the above in red completed today:

Replacement grade 8 bolt and torqued everything again. Everything is tight and right:



Rear Diode Dynamics turn signals are in and they are BRIGHT! No hyperflash either!



Tailgate mod COMPLETE. Tailgate is much more level now although that could be because of the shackle flip.. everything is lower in the rear now..







Got the spindles cleared up, brakleened and laid down 4 coats of primer:



I'll let them cure for a few days and then start the enamel coats.

Here is a side by side comparison of the SOS shackle flip with stock length ATO shackles versus the BAMF hangers and ATO shackles:



It's amazing to see how these changes make all the difference. It no longer rides like a dumptruck in the rear and everything feels more planted while driving; especially on expressway on ramps.

Still need to flex her out but I look forward to running these BAMF hangers for a long time.

 

SHACKLE FLIP VS. BAMF HANGERS REVIEW/THOUGHTS/PLANS

...

In short, I am not sure that I like the look/stance and I think the shackle flip ruined my life!! (over-dramatic)



*DISCLAIMER - I was/am FULLY aware that I would have lost height in the rear going from a shackle flip to an inverted shackle, however, I didn't think it would be THIS drastic or noticeable. (The shackle flip ruined my life.)

I have had the shackle flip for about 3 years and the BAMF hangers for a little over a week. I keep going back and forth in my mind about going back. Part of it is because I have had the shackle flip for so long that I am just accustom to how the truck looks in the rear. The other part of me that tells me to leave it is because, I am not sure that my shackle flip was ever set up correctly. I believe the shackle should have been mounted in the front most hole. I probably would have lost .5" - 1" with the shackle being more at a 45* angle versus 70* seen below. Here is the stock length ATO
shackle at rest, bed unloaded with a topper and high clearance steel bumper with swingout:



Here is, also, the best side by side comparison of the shackle flip (left) versus the BAMF kit (right) taken weeks apart (both with an empty bed, topper and high clearance steel bumper with swingout:



I have no actual numbers from before (kicking myself for it) but I would estimate roughly 1.5" - 2" of height lost in the rear. I should still be at 3" of lift in the rear, and the truck appears to look level; even slightly raked just not as pronounced as before. I like rake. I really do. Pics below:





I don't believe that my leafs are worn that would prompt a "necessity" replacement:



Here are some pros and cons that I can think of/confirm after a little over a week of the new setup:

PROS:
- smoother ride; the old setup used to ride like a dump truck when it was unloaded, even with a swingout and topper

- Vibration from ~55-60mph is COMPLETELY gone! NO MORE VIBES ANYWHERE!!

- rear end feels more planted and controlled; should be even better once I get the crossbrace finished and installed

- regardless of the shackle flip or not, the rear end should droop like a MOFO. Probably even more noticeable now that the shackle is back to being inverted with 12" shocks. The shackle/shackle hanger would be the limiting factor (still need to test flexing/drooping the rear for clearance)

- Reduce leaf pack wear and tear compared to shackle flip; unknown what damage was already done, however, if any.

- No axle wrap vibes/shutters from a dig.

CONS:

- ride height; it's only been 1 week (BAMF) versus 3 years (shackle flip) ..I'm such a bitch..

- I was replacing a hanger bolt Saturday that I snapped during the install and I could no longer sit straight up under the bed of the truck; again, bitch.

- Dragging ass more; more of a chance of scratching bumper on more obstacles

PLANS:

- I will be hanging onto the shackle flip brackets and hardware for now. I will clean them up, paint them and put them in a storage bin. Maybe I will use them again, maybe I won't.

- Leave the BAMF kit installed, cycle the travel in the driveway and take her offroad to test performance.

- Look at a custom Deaver leaf pack (or local shop if applicable); 600lbs of constant load at 4" of lift. Not sure this would really be worth it for an extra inch of lift in the rear, but when the Dakars reach end of life and need replacing, that will likely be the route I take to gain some rake in the rear (provided I keep the BAMF kit installed).

https://deaverspring.com/product/tacoma-2wd-4wd-6-lug-2005-2018-expedition-series-spring/

- Torn between stage II and stage III; Probably stage III



NOTES:

LOL. I know. I use that phrase as an endearing term. I swear

Why inverted? Well you asked for it.

Start by drawing a line between the front spring hanger and the pivot of the shackle/rear spring. Now draw the same line with the shackle flipped. As the suspension compresses, an inverted shackle will allow for more bump travel than a shackle flip. It's line will be higher. Typical responses are to either 1) extend your bump stops or 2) allow the spring pack to go wicked negative arch.

With that said, yes you gain some ride height (again think about the lines) and you will gain some droop. However, every single spring pack on the market is designed for the factory inverted shackle. Flip that around, and now your spring pack will be more loaded at right height when compared to the factory inverted shackle. Look at anyone who's done the flip. Their spring pack is almost flat at ride height. And since every pack is a progressive spring rate, expect your ride to be bumpier and payload decreased.
Some people allow the springs to go more negative. But be aware, this will decrease the lifespan of the pack and make it more susceptible to breaking a leaf when flexed.

I'm of the opinion that if your goal is anything even remotely mid to high speed, shackle flips are the wrong decision. If you are only interested in crawling, the flip will allow more droop at the consequence of less bump. Most crawlers aren't overly concerned with bump travel, but then again there are very few crawling rigs on TW. The vast majority of us are building a rig that we can keep streetable/DD and still be a weekend warrior. IMO a shackle flip doesn't accomplish that (very well).

Also keep in mind, if you bought OE shocks, your shocks are no longer long enough to allow for the added droop travel of a shackle flip. Which means redesigning your shock mounts or new shocks. I call this never ending cycle FOTFUSE: Fix One Thing Fuck Up Something Else.

Something else to keep in mind. A lot of the flips I've seen on TW, folks are using longer XJ shackles (my build included) to get even more droop. Something people seem to forget is a shackle is a lever. The longer the shackle, the larger the lever. Pair that with the completely shit 2 ply sheet metal C-channel frame and you are asking for bent and/or cracked frames due to the frame dovetail. Hense the boxed and plated frame.

And the last but not least tidbit on the shackle flip conversation. As I mentioned, every single pack on the market is designed for the inverted shackle.

One more comparison. Because a shackle flip gives you "sooooo much more droop"

I got so sick of arguing that same thing...nobody wants to spend the money for correct custom leaf packs so they try all this stupid shit to make dakar's or AP's etc work the same way. They'll spend hundreds on shackle flips and stupid shit ...to not spend a few hundred extra where it counts on the leafs.

With my old setup (Dakar and shackle flip with xj shackles) I did some driveshaft measurements and I would have needed a 4* shim on my leaf pack to get the driveline angles in check. For the time being while I had the flip, I had a 1" carrier bearing drop to get 2 of the 3 u-joints in check, but that big of a drop was fucking with the u-joint off the x-fer case flange. So I always had driveshaft vibes.
With the new spring pack and back to stock geometry hangers and shackles and no diff drop, I was only 1.3* off. Generally speaking you want the u-joints less than 1* off, otherwise you will end up with driveline vibrations at some speeds/loads.
I'm super anal retentive and hate driveline vibrations so I went to work with the angle finder. With three stacked washers under the CB I was able to get the angles to 0.1* difference.

-shackle flip just gives you lift and makes you feel like you have more "droop" Depends on shock setup. If you are using OE mounts, you will not get any more droop out of it.
-shackle flip it self doesn't put more load on the springs (ultimately the springs are holding the weight of the truck regardless) but if the wheel is stuffed with the shackles flipped and no bump stops the springs will be subjected to negative arc and shit can get damaged (namely the springs and frame) Mostly. The leaf packs are progressive spring rate. When you do a flip, you are loading the springs more at ride height than compared to the factory inverted shackle. So not necessarily "more load" but perceived ride quality will be bumpier because the spring rate is higher when the pack is flatter.
-shackle flip does not give more "travel" or whatever yall decided on earlier lol Depends if/how much you allow the pack to go negative. Doing just a shackle flip will give you more droop. And if you don't extend your bump stops, you can have more travel by allowing your pack to go more negative. This subject has been beat to death. I'm at the point where I don't care what anyone does. So much utter bullshit spewed off in many threads. My truck, my preferences, my build. I know the ride quality and travel differences with both setups and there's a reason I went the route I went.
-shackle flip can mess up your driveshaft angles. That's for damn sure



Back to inverted hangers.
New Deaver springs installed.
Shackles I built ended up not working out quite right. They were dragging the bushing pretty bad. Will need a slight redesign. But for the time being, stock ones back in place. Truck rides sooooooooo much better than before. Fucking night and day. Just say no to shackle flips kids.

New ride height:


Full droop:



CLOSING THOUGHTS:

*DISCLAIMER #2 - It took me all day to write this up at work and get another dose of @jberry813 to feel better about my decision.

The plan now is to focus on some custom Deaver leaf packs for the rear and ditch the HD Dakars. Those will likely come before I even replace my 12" Billies with my brother's old 12" Kongs. I keep bugging him that he needs to get to a welder and it seems that the better option would be to just buy new and be done with it..at this point.

I am so indecisive about the rear suspension. This is now like the 5th or 6th iteration of the rear setup.

I need to focus on the front end rebuild..hopefully excited new coming on that front..SOON.

 

@Nimble9 @boogie3478

 

Ok I’ll be honest, I stopped reading once I hit the notes section lol it sounds like the BAMF hangers are better in literally every way and all it did was lower you down to a more normal ride height. I bet that’s where your driveline vibes were coming from as well, since it was so out of whack.

Besides like you mentioned, I don’t think your shackle flip was set up properly to begin with. It looks like it wouldn’t take much droop before your shackle inverts which is of course not good.

 

I noticed a lot of your posts consist of maybe 10 words max.

You're passionate about the subject and just want to get quality information out there..nothing wrong with that.

+1 to you fine sir

*Choosing words wisely*: FUCK YEAH BROTHER

Correct Bae.

Live and learn. Just more shit to add to my suspension thread resume...

 

I’m not trying to be negative, just trying to keep you from switching back to the flip since it sounds like this is much better.

 

I purchased a 3rd gen

 

This is seriously the nicest post I’ve seen you make, that I can think of.

 

New club member?

 

I know I saw a post or two where you Clorox'd the thread..and it wasn't easy. I probably missed some posts, but I had 20 tabs of your build thread opened and read 10 pages of each tab to make sure I didn't miss anything in the bullshit.

I plan on leaving everything as is just upgrading the shocks and leafs and selling the old stuff.

That REALLY means a lot from you..truly. I appreciate it

Never heard of him until now