GOP made a stand Finally

most people who live BELOW their means, such as my parents are not affected at all. but its the people who make 50k a year buying 300k homes and driving a bmw and a range rover that are screwed. it just makes sense, if you cant afford it, dont buy it.

 

I live in the Bay Area outside SF. Some of the people I've met are perhaps the worst offenders of this. The price of homes got to be over 600k on avg. Considering that it would take a dual-six figure income to afford such a price, there were plenty who bought a home making half that. I know several people who are absolutely screwed right now because they were counting on appreciation to save them. These are people with college degrees and decent incomes. The worst part is that the price of housing ruined the quality of life here. Those prices are lower, but still way the hell too high. Thus I sort of have a personal reason to see those prices fall- so we could afford.

 

I think that's kind of a flawed argument though, as there's another side to things. I put almost 30% down on my house, if I lose a lot of that equity in my house, I'm going to have to start saving more money to make up for it, and spending less. I imagine there's a lot of responsible people like me out there that would suffer from falling house values, just as much as the people that took advantage of the system... there is no perfect solution I guess.

 

Well, if you ask me, that's a part of the problem: Homes are not banks, and its equity is not meant to be extracted until you sell it, which typically comes years down the road, or at least that's how it has been for much of the last century. The avg American should get the vast bulk of their wealth from retirement plans and investments. When I buy our house, I'm not going to count on it for my income because its really just a liability and not a dependable financial asset.Its just a place to store my junk. The money from from my IRA's, 401k, mutual funds, cash, and so forth. As it has been for awhile, Americans use their homes as a prime source of income. That rationale is coming to and end because the levels of appreciation seen in the boom won't be coming back.

I'm not saying you personally are doing this, but the general use of a home being seen as a financial hedge was rampant in the boom.

 

If the fed starts allowing people to re-do their mortgage for lower rates, lower home price, etc., is it worth it to be 60 days late on your payments?

That is all it would take to qualify for Fed assistance - 60 days late and you get to keep your $300k house for less than what you agreed to when you signed the papers.

I bought a house I can afford. I make my payments on time. I pay my taxes on the house. WTF do idiots get help when people who do it right are expected to just sit back and watch.

Other than credit score (which wouldn't be that affected by two late payments, one time) - is there any reason not to do this to qualify?

Oh, and i guess you have to throw out moral reasons, like I promised to pay this money back, etc.

 

Exactly. If you're going to handout dollars to all those "poor" homeowners, then you might as well handout some dollars to all of us renters. For some reason, every action the government has taken so far has been to help people who made poor decisions. We've lived very frugally, saved a large % of our incomes, and if things work out, will probably be able to buy a house for cash, if not most of one at least. Its taken me over 10 years to do that, my Wife about the same. 10 years of driving old beater cars which I fix myself, eating out less than once a week, buying clothes at thrift shops, and carpooling to work. A lot of people did exactly the opposite, and those people are the ones getting all the assistance. Is there such a thing as reward for acting rationally?

 

Okay, I found out some info on HR1 aka the Porkulus package that passed in the House and now is moving to the Senate..
So here is the excerpt. ---

By Lee Cary


The pork-laden American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 passed by Democrats in the House is a huge pig pen.


Thanks to the staff of Congressman Michael Burgess (TX-R., 26th Dist.), I waded through a hardcopy of Division A - Appropriations Provisions of H.R.1. It's painful and it's ugly. (My reading of "Division B - Other Provisions," pages 251-647, which contains the bill's Tax provisions, will require OTC painkillers not currently in my possession.)


There's enough pork in Division A to rename the Washington D.C. Reflecting Pool the Bay of Pigs.


At the risk of hurting you, I list the bill's appropriations below. You can consult the entire bill for details, where there are any. And there are few. Most of the explanations for how the money is to be spent are as brief as fortune cookie notes, and opaque as peanut butter. I left the zeros in for impact and highlighted several of the larger numbers. It's possible there's a mistake in transcription, but you'll get the drift.


Department Of Agriculture


$44,000,000 - Agriculture Buildings and Facilities and Rental Payments; $209,000,000 - Agricultural Research Service Buildings and Facilities; $245,000,000 - Farm Service Agency Salaries and Expenses; $350,000,000 - Natural Resources Conservation Service Watershed and Flood Prevention Operations; $50,000,000 - Watershed Rehabilitation Program; $5,838,000,000 - Rural Development Programs, Rural Community Advancement Program; $22,129,000,000 - Rural Housing Service, Rural Housing Insurance Fund Program Account; $2,825,000,000 - Rural Utilities Service, Distance Learning, Telemedicine, and Broadband Program; $100,000,000 - Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children; $150,000,000 - Emergency Food Assistance Program" (This includes grants for Puerto Rico and American Samoa); $300,000,000 - Administrative Expenses ($150,000,000 each in '09 & '10); $650,000,000 - Forest Service, Capital Improvement and Maintenance; $840,000,000 - Wildland Fire Management


Department Of Commerce


$250,000,000 - Economic Development Administration, Economic Development Assistance Program; $1,000,000,000 - Bureau of the Census, Periodic Censuses and Programs (additional funding); $350,000,000 - National Telecommunications and Information Administration, Salaries and Expenses; $2,825,000,000 - Wireless and Broadband Deployment Grant Programs; $650,000,000 - Digital-To-Analog Converter Box Program; $100,000,000 - National Institute of Standards and Technology Scientific and Technical Research and Services; $100,000,000 - Industrial Technology Services


$300,000,000 - Construction of Research Facilities; $400,000,000 - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Operations, Research and Facilities; $600,000,000 - Procurement, Acquisition and Construction (includes not less than $140,000,000 for "climate data modeling")


Department Of Justice (DoJ)


$3,000,000,000 - State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance; $1,000,000,000 - Community Oriented Policing Services


National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)


$400,000,000 - Science (not less than $250,000,000 "shall be solely for accelerating the development of the tier 1 set of Earth science climate research missions); $150,000,000 - Aeronautics; $50,000,000 - Cross Agency Support Programs (restoration and mitigation of NASA infrastructure and facilities damaged during 2008 disasters)


National Science Foundation


$2,500,000,000 - Research and Related Activities; $100,000,000 - Education and Human Resources; $400,000,000 - Major Research Equipment and Facilities Construction


Department Of Defense


$4,500,000,000 - Facility Infrastructure Investments; $350,000,000 - Energy Research and Development; $920,000,000 - Military Construction, Army; $350,000,000 - Military Construction, Navy & Marine Corps; $260,000,000 - Military Construction, Air Force; $3,750,000,000 - Military Construction, Defense-Wide; $140,000,000 - Military Construction, Army National Guard; $70,000,000 - Military Construction, Air National Guard; $100,000,000 - Military Construction, Army Reserve; $30,000,000 - Military Construction, Navy Reserve; $60,000,000 - Military Construction, Air Force Reserve; $300,000,000 - Department of Defense Base Closure Account 1990


Department Of Veterans Affairs (VA)


$950,000,000 - Veterans Health Administration, Medical Facilities; $50,000,000 - National Cemetery Administration


Energy And Water


$2,000,000,000 - Army Corps of Engineers, Civil Construction; $250,000,000 - Mississippi River and Tributaries; $2,225,000,000 - Operation and Maintenance; $25,000,000 - Regulatory Program


Department Of Energy


$18,500,000,000 - Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy; $4,500,000,000 -; $1,000,000,000 - Advanced Battery Loan Guarantee Program; $500,000,000 - Institutional Loan Guarantee Program; $8,000,000,000 - Innovative Technology Loan Guarantee Program; $2,400,000,000 - Fossil Energy; $2,000,000,000 - Science (weird science?)


Environmental And Other Defense Activities


$500,000,000 - Defense Environmental Cleanup


Borrowing Authorities


$3,250,000,000 - Western Area Power Administration; $3,250,000,000 - Bonneville Power Administration


General Services Administration


$7,700,000,000 - Federal Buildings Fund; $600,000,000 - Energy Efficient Federal Motor Vehicle Fleet Procurement (no mention of buying only American cars)


Small Business Administration


$426,000,000 - Business Loans Program Account


Department Of Homeland Security


$100,000,000 - U.S. Customs and Border Protection (non-intrusive detection technology at sea ports of entry); $150,000,000 - Repair and Construct Inspections Facilities (at land border points of entry); $500,000,000 - Aviation Security; $150,000,000 - Coast Guard, (alteration of bridges); $200,000,000 - FEMA, Emergency Food & Shelter


Department Of The Interior


$500,000,000 - Bureau of Reclamation, Water and Related Resources; $325,000,000 - Bureau of Land Management, Construction (for priority road, bridge and trail repair or decommissioning); $300,000,000 - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Construction (for priority road and bridge replacement and repair); $1,700,000,000 - National Park Service Construction; $200,000,000 - National Mall Revitalization Fund (half of that requires matching private funds); $100,000,000 - National Park Service Centennial Challenge (signature projects and programs); $200,000,000 - U.S. Geological Survey for Surveys, Investigations and Research; $500,000,000 - Bureau of Indian Affairs, Construction; $800,000,000 - Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Hazardous Substance Superfund; $200,000,000 - EPA, Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program; $8,400,000,000 - State and Tribal Assistance Grants ($6 bln, Clean Water State Revolving Funds; $2 bln, Drinking Water State Revolving Funds; $300 mil, Title VII, Subtitle G, Energy Policy Act of 2005; $100 mil, Comprehensive environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act of 1980)


Department Of Health And Human Services (HSS)


$550,000,000 - Indian Health Service; $2,188,000,000 - Health Resources and Services; $462,000,000 - Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Disease Control, Research and Training; $1,500,000,000 - National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Center for Research Resources; $1,500,000,000 - NIH, Office of the Director; $500,000,000 - NIH, Buildings & Facilities; $700,000,000 - Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality; $400,000,000 - Discretionary Funds, Secretary of HHS (Tom Daschle won't have to pay taxes on this); $1,000,000,000 - Administration for Children and Families, Low-Income Home Energy Assistance; $2,000,000,000 - Payments to States for the Child Care and Development Block Grant; $3,200,000,000 - Children and Families Services Program; $200,000,000 - Administration on Aging, Aging Services Programs; $2,000,000,000 - Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology; $900,000,000 - Public Health & Social Services Emergency Fund (three parts for advanced R&D, prepare for influenza pandemic, improve IT at the Department of HHS); $3,000,000,000 - HHS Prevention and Wellness Fund


Department Of Education


$13,000,000,000 - Education for the Disadvantaged; $100,000,000 - Impact Aid (Title VII of the elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965); $1,000,000,000 - School Improvement Program; $200,000,000 - Innovation and Improvement; $13,000,000,000 - Special Education (ref. IDEA, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act); $16,126,000,000 - Student Financial Assistance; $50,000,000 - Student Aid Administration; $100,000,000 - Higher Education; $250,000,000 - Institute of Education Sciences; $14,000,000,000 - School Modernization, Renovation, and Repair; $6,000,000,000 - Higher Education Modernization, Renovation, and Repair; $79,000,000,000 - State Fiscal Stabilization Fund


Corporation For National And Community Service


$160,000,000 - Operating Expenses; $40,000,000 - National Service Trust


Social Security Administration


$900,000,000 - Limitation on Administrative Expenses


Smithsonian Institute


$150,000,000 - Facilities Capital


National Foundation For The Arts And The Humanities


$50,000,000 - National Endowment for the Arts


Department Of Labor


$4,000,000,000 - Employment and Training Administration; $120,000,000 - Community Service Employment For Older Americans; $500,000,000 - State Unemployment Insurance and Employment Service Operations; $80,000,000 - Departmental Management; $300,000,000 - Office of the Job Corps


Department Of State


$276,000,000 - Administration of Foreign Affairs, Capital Investment Fund; $224,000,000 - International Boundary and Water Commission, U.S. and Mexico, Construction


Department Of Transportation


$3,000,000,000 - Federal Aviation Administration, Grants-in-Aid for Airports;


$30,000,000,000 - Federal Highway Administration, Highway Infrastructure Investment; $300,000,000 - Federal Railroad Administration, Capital Assistance for Intercity Passenger Rail Service; $800,000,000 - Capital and Debt Service Grant to the Railroad Passenger Corporation; $6,000,000,0000 - Federal Transit Administration, Transit Capital Assistance; $2,000,000,000 - Fixed Guideway Infrastructure Investment; $1,000,000,000 - Grants at the discretion of the Secretary of Transportation


Department Of Housing & Urban Development


$5,000,000,000 - Public & Indian Housing, Public Housing Capital Fund; $2,500,000,000 - Elderly, Disabled, and Section 8 Assisted Housing, Energy Retrofit; $500,000,000 - Native American Housing Block Grants; $1,000,000,000 - Community Planning & Development, Community Development Fund; $4,190,000,000 - Neighborhood Stabilization Activities (ACORN money here?);Community Development Fund; $1,500,000,000 - Home Investment Partnerships Program; $10,000,000 - Self-Help & Assisted Homeownership Opportunity Program; $1,500,000,000 - Homeless Assistance Grants; $100,000,000 - Office of Healthy Homes and Lead Hazard Control, Lead Hazard Reduction


Whew! Boar-a-rama. Hog heaven.


Rest assured, though, that all these expenditures will be closely monitored to prevent fraud and wasteful spending. There's 198,400,000 allocated for Inspector Generals of federal departments and agencies. The Government Accounting Office will have another $25,000,000 to follow the money flowing from the swinery.


An, in case you're concerned about such things, breath easy because, according to Sec. 1109. PROHIBITED USES:


None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available in the Act may be used for any casino or other gambling establishment, aquarium, zoo, golf course, or swimming pool.


This, of course, does not apply to later mentioned "pools of first lien position 504 [SBA] loans sold to third-party investors." Only swimming pools.


In H.R.1 there is even a Blago Clause (SEC. 1112). No money is to be spent in Illinois as long as Blago is governor except by separate expressed approval from the State legislature. But that's a mute issue now. No Blago - no problem.


As for transparency, it's assured by SEC. 1221. "ESTABLISHMENT OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY BOARD." The Chief Performance Officer appointed by the President will chair the above mentioned Board and serve with six inspector generals and deputy secretaries of the Departments of Energy, HHS, Transportation, "and from other Federal departments and agencies to which funds are made available in the Act."


The Board's budget is $14,000,000. Their office space will be provided within the Executive Office of the President. There'll also be an Independent Advisory Panel (SEC. 1229) with five members chosen by President Obama. All on the up-n-up.


Here an oink, there an oink, everywhere an oink, oink.

 

Did you see the budget for HUD-- 4.19 bil for Neighborhood Stabilization Activities???
WTF is that??

Then DHS gets nothing.. I guess we let the bad guys walk right in and attack at will. But after thinking about it they are shutting down Gitmo and moving em here so what difference does it make, right..

Shit, this is a whopper.. Stock up on TP and paper towels. We will need it for money after they pass this baby. The dollar will be flushed down the toilet.

 

This world is retarted...

I dont know if any of you guys smoke pot, but im sure you have a friend that does, well just get really high some night and you will start to realize how retarted the world really is.. All this bullshit, why the drama? why any of this mess of politicians, why any of this crap.. I am soo over this corrupt ass world..

/rant

 

The interesting part about the section regarding housing, the majority of it seems to be aimed at lower income, even disabled "homeowners". The problem with the housing market is actually focused heavily in the middle and even upper middle income bracket. It pisses me off as a renter that homeowners who bought above their means should get help. But as is, what they're proposing here won't stop the housing market from sliding.

The end of this is the same as would've happened if they had simply allowed things to crash: Prices will become lower, people will be able to buy. Problem solved.

 

look for this movie on movie6.net..........Zeitgeist Addemdum.............it will get you thinking...........GO GREEN