HAM Alternative

What is the range on the 2m?

 

Using unauthorized spectrum from the FCC's standpoint is somewhere from a warning letter to a fine or even jail. It depends on where you transmit and what you do while transmitting. If you key up on a .mil frequency you will also get a visit from other 3-letter organizations. On public service bands you probably will get fined as long it's not intentionally causing harm or you happen to impede an emergency, which could be jail. If it's on business bands, general use or ham you probably won't get caught and the FCC only will know if an authorized user reports you. It may be OCD for hams to listen for pirate stations but if we don't do it no one else will. I think the basic premise is "You don't have to go home, just can't stay here" on the amateur bands. The GMRS and CB spectrum is all yours to abuse and let the FCC deal with it.

 

With GMRS (and MURS though the power limitation is kind of a deal breaker) being the true solution to the problem that this thread was created to address, the offerings for certified equipment is pretty dismal. Well, as far as equipment that will outperform CB. It's a shame that manufacturers of sub-50 watt dual bands don't offer frequency locked, GMRS only units. It could be that the Part 95 certification process is cost prohibitive or otherwise cumbersome. The only certified mobile I see is the Midland MTX400 and the vast majority of handhelds are the 2 watt blister packs.

 

@LMarshall73, that's the chicken-and-the-egg, isn't it? I wonder had there been a jump in interest 5 or 10 years ago with GMRS rather than ham if the current situation would have been different. More radios to pick from and the FCC would have realigned things differently. Down under in Australia they have their UHF CB, which is basically GMRS, and everyone uses it so the antennas and radios are common with lots of options.

 

I get that. I just prefer to err on the side of caution, just in case. Kind of like gathering parts for an AR build and having a pistol upper ready to go before you have a dedicated lower ready to go while you also have a built rifle. Odds of anyone knowing is slim to none, but it technically violates the law. Again, the ridiculousness of some regulations is beyond the pale, but I get how abuses of FCC regs can create significant issues. That being said, yeah, self regulation by limiting use to approved channels and following appropriate protocols should be sufficient.

 

Yeah. And this is kind of what floors me about Rugged Radios. A lot of people use them and most are likely doing so without appropriate licensing but without criminal intent. The marketing just puts the equipment out there as an alternative to CB but without informing people they could be violating the law even with recreational use.

With all of this talk, even having my GMRS license, I'm likely going to keep plugging away at getting a HAM ticket even though my use is going to be limited to recreation.

 

Ham Radio Operator, and CB radio operator. Electronic Warfare Chief Petty Officer in the Navy. Instructor in the Navy, "Electronic Warfare Officers" course.

GMRS is excellent for short range, more or less line of sight communications; however this can vary by weather conditions (see below).

UHF frequency ranges can go further, if you have what is known as *"Trapping" and "Ducting" in effect; I got spectacular ranges on radar frequencies in the Med and in the Persian Gulf, especially in summertime; but GMRS is still on the UHF bands, and that makes it still more or less line of sight under normal conditions, no matter what your output power.
Sheer wattage does you no good in mountainous or hilly areas, or if weather conditions prohibit trapping and ducting; it is still a UHF signal at those frequencies.
The GMRS manufacturers are highly misleading in their advertising, "We have 50 watts!" Yes you do, and you are still in the UHF Frequency range.
You can get very good ranges in summertime across flat land or water, or if the above weather conditions known as *Trapping and Ducting is in effect; water is an excellent "Ground Plane".
But it all comes down to operating in the UHF frequency range.
If you want GMRS, it is excellent in flatland, or over water; but remember the manufacturers of it are in the business of selling gear, and advertise accordingly.

*Trapping and Ducting is effected by; temperature, pressure, and humidity.

How do Ham Radio Operators get such spectacular ranges in the 440 band?
Easy there are "Repeater" towers everywhere, on top of hills or buildings in many areas; they take the amateur band UHF signal that is transmitted by you more or less in line of sight, and repeat it, and then send it onward.
Repeating the signal from the top of a hill or building gives you great UHF radio range.

 

That's pretty much confirming a lot of what I've found in my research. I've also come to realize that there are a number of open GMRS repeaters in the areas that I would likely need comms (more than I expected, to be honest). Of course, there aren't too many hills in Florida, so repeater presence may be a moot point.

As I've previously stated, I'm looking for a solution for trail comms between trucks.

 

This is the logical hole in radio legality. It's not, generally speaking, illegal to sell or own radios for any service or be in possession of equipment that can transmit on spectrum for which you don't have authority. There are some exceptions, one of which radios can't receive on cell phone frequencies unless they are licensed to be cell phones. So Rugged Radio or Amazon can sell anything they want since it's up to the end user to know what he can and cannot do in the FCC's eyes and those outlets really don't care one way or the other since they are not responsible for you using the equipment illegally.

 

Yeah. That's the rub. It's a shame that there is no provision for utilizing equipment that meets the power output requirements on the proper frequencies while following proper protocols. If someone operates outside of those parameters, by all means, enforce the regulations, but if there is no interference with other lawful users...

 

Both the Rugged Radio and PCI Radios have only "race radio" frequencies programmed into the radios which is in the LMR Business radio band allocation. They have the radios locked (via software) out of the HAM radio bands.

 

From their product description:

Even reviewing 47 CFR Part 90, under operator requirements it appears that there are still licensing requirements associated with LMR frequencies. I could be referencing the wrong subsection as the FCC website only references "47 CFR Part 90":

 

With the above being said, if the RR equipment can lawfully be utilized without a license, I may be coming full circle in looking at their offerings.

 

It is easy to buy or have modified a radio not intended to be used on CB radio band frequencies, for the radio be used on the CB radio Frequency bands.
This also applies to any radios, including GMRS or any other radio on any other radio frequency ranges (I. E. marine band radios on the 162 MHz frequency range) which are operating out of the legally designated frequency ranges for the radio.

The FCC Must approve all transmitting devices, before they are allowed to be used in America; some of your "Out of band" radios are not legally imported, they are slipped in illegally as "other items".

Quite a few sales points sell them (In all bands, not just CB), and some will even "Tune them for best performance" for you to do this. The FCC shuts them down from time to time, and more promptly pop up.

The problem with buying and/or using radios modified to put out excessive power on any radio bands, or transmit outside of the legally designated frequency range on any radio band, is that those radios (And linear amps) are always illegal under FCC rules; and therefore also illegal under federal law, no matter what internet rumor says otherwise.

This is not normally one of the FCC's big priorities, unless you cause interference to a legal radio service, or might cause a hazard in some other manner.
Did you just block an emergency police communication; the police are upset with you.
How does your radio work on the guy down the streets diathermy machine while he is using it; how about the nearest hospitals diathermy machine?
Second example: Are you in the UHF range (GMRS)? Many public service radios operate in the UHF range of frequencies. I. E. Police, Fire, Medical; Maintenance Services, Transportation, and others. If you slip into those frequencies, however accidentally, I guarantee the FCC will be looking for you.

Radios modified to operate "Out of Band" (Or Linear Amps that put out excessive power on CB or other services) can put out something known as "Harmonics" on other frequencies; sometimes wildly different from the intended operation frequency of the radio because they are often offshore manufactured, and badly designed to begin with. Also they don't care if you get into legal trouble, as long as you buy the modified radio.

I saw examples of unintentional EMI (Electromagnetic Interference) in the Navy, where a ships deck lifelines, if they were metal and if they weren't grounded successfully, could take a high powered radio or even a radar frequency signal, and throw a new frequency signal back out at the frequency of the life line length, Same thing for other ungrounded metal objects on the ship; the signal that is now re-transmitted, is on the frequency wave length of the object putting out the interference.

This can interfere with legally operated services, and those will complain immediately if it does. If you also happen to be interfering with a public safety radio, or a medical device or medical facility (The diathermy machine), you now have definitely got the attention of the FCC. And as above mentioned, if you slip into the Public Service Frequencies however accidentally, that is going to reported immediately.

Fines, absolutely equipment confiscation, and possible jail time are the penalties.

 

Basically, don't play with someone else's toys and you won't get your pee pee slapped for not having a license

 

Rugged Radio is using VHF LMR, which just means land mobile radio, frequencies that belong to someone, somewhere. Usually they are business and taxi companies but being out in the middle of nowhere desert racing they don't interfere with the licensee so either no one notices or cares. Down in Mexico the race radios are allowed to be used without a license during SCORE events as I understand it, but realize that does not extend to the U.S. Some do have a license, Weatherman I believe is the licensee on 151.625 MHz in the region.

 

Subd

 

Being that both Rugged Radio and PCI Radio business is solely catered to off road racing, id imagine the "owner" of the frequencies have granted permission for use to the end user..

Here are the frequencies that PCI programms into the radio, Rugged's frequency list is nearly identical..

 

After reading all of that my head hurts, just sounds like way too much ass pain to me unless maybe your day job is working for "Geek Squad" then its probably right up your alley.

 

But...
Rugged doesn't limit their marketing to racing only applications. They market towards recreational use as well, so operation on those frequencies may be covered under the licensee while attending/participating in an event, but not when trotting down a trail in the mountains.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I appreciate all of the input. I just don't see how there could be any misconception that RR doesn't market their equipment for recreational use. It could just be an underlying "wink, wink, nod, nod, no one's going to track you down on the side of a mountain or out in the desert" but I could see some people unintentionally getting into some trouble using their equipment. Hell, I was thinking of picking up one of their handhelds until I saw it was essentially a

$40 Baofeng UV-5R Ham Radio Long Range Handheld UV5R Dual Band 3800mAh Rechargeable Two Way Radio Walkie Talkies for Adults with Earpiece,Speaker Mic and Programming Cable Full Kit (Black-1Pack)

Baofeng UV-5R. That's one of the reasons I got to digging into this in the first place.