Heavy duty grille for taco

Do the Avid bars really bolt to the frame? I thought they bolted to the inner bumper bracket??

Genuine question.

 

It uses two factory bolts per side, so you might be right. Don't recall if it's the bracket-to-bumper or bracket-to-frame bolts.

 

I'm just sitting here laughing about a marine repeating the word science over and over. Lol.

I dont have science to back it up... but I've been running shops for the last 15 years and have seen sooo many cheap brush guards bent back over the hood and wrapped around the edges to be able to say they are not worth it. Most of the impacts are low on the guard and just fold the thing back into the hood.Go full bumper or dont bother.

 

Physics qualifies as science. Except for people who can’t do math.

 

Ohhh goodie

Another opinion, but this one has years of experience so he must right........

 

Not somthing absurd from TW, just somthing I’ve seen a few times working as a collision Tech. I’ve gotten frames that were either tweaked or had minor rips, usually derectly where it’s mounted. Almost always something that can be repaired.

 

I have a Warn Trans4mer (have not installed optional light guards). If this gets hit hard, the frame will likely have an issue. Some of these other guards not so much. You can mount a winch on this model and their is a reciever as well.



My old truck.

 

Then you should know frames bend without them too. You can’t look at a bent frame and say “this would’ve been fine without the grill guard.”

Which is the point, lot of speculation but no validity. If you’re in an accident with enough force to cause a grill guard to bend and damage your bumper, grill, hood, fender, headlights.. you were likely going to damage them without the grill guard, too. Does it “multiply damage?” Common sense tells you that, yes - in some situations you can be spreading impact from a small area to a large area due only to the fact the grill guard is a structurally weak component, but, is as wide as the vehicle, and it can contact and damage other components that are softer than steel tubing in the process of it failing.

Frame damage? Speculation. It doesn’t take much to bend a frame, particularly in an accident and front end collision due to engineering and design that allow the frame (and everything else) to absorb energy. Bending is how they do that. Ask your shop estimator.

By this logic of coincidence becomes fact.. factory bumpers bend frames, I’ve seen it. So we should start saying those are dangerous too?

Frames are designed to bend. It doesn’t care what bumper is attached to it. There’s a guy on this forum that bent his frame by rock crawling. There’s hundreds of videos showing bed flexing while driving, like 1.5” of flex.. that’s normal. The Tacoma frame is weak, it isn’t a great truck frame by any means.

Ripping of frame material, again, is a direct correlation to force. Just because we see a tear doesn’t mean that’s the causation of the damage. You’re seeing a symptom of a larger issue, and calling it the problem.

That isn’t how actual diagnostic works. Neither does speculating about why it proves anything, because that only serves to convince the person speaking that they’re correct. It doesn’t prove anything to anybody else, unless they’re naive.

I’ve done body and paint work for 20 years, making new panels from flat sheet metal, not slinging body filler and bolting/spot welding on new panels, and I’ve been a technician in various industries (none automotive) so not talking completely out of my ass. You can’t assume a fault with quantifying the failure, none of the grill guard haters are able to do that in regards to frame damage. It isn’t possible to look at something and make an assumption except at face value, which doesn’t make fact.

 

Appreciate the intelligent and well thought out response, I actually agree you can’t look at any given accident and say “this would’ve been fine without a grille guard” my original goal was to state what I’ve physically seen when the said products (brush guards, bull bars ect.) are installed when an accident takes place.

I don’t have any issues with brush guards and the like, nor do I think they multiply damage. (Unless you’re in a situation where they hit the fenders) But in my mind if the product is strong enough, having a guard like that bolted to the front of your truck could alter how energy is transferred from an accident. Where as the original engineering is designed to take the force on the reinforcement and cause that to compress, fold, and absorb before the frame rails give way, some of these kits bypass the the reinforcement all together and instead of the the reinforcement absorbing the initial energy it sends it straight to the frame rail ends. I’m not referring to the cheap brush guards with hollow tubing, these were more substantial.
That’s not to say that the damage wouldn’t have been just as bad without the guards, I can’t say for certain, the IIHS has never done tests with after market products like this before.
But IMO anything you add to the front of your vehicle, for better or for worse is going to effect the original engineering and change how your truck absorbs the energy, and how the factory crumple zones respond.

 

Too bad there isn’t a horizontal shock System on the guards, that when on impact,transfers the energy along the frame rail, instead of forcing it to react locally.
Of course, if if your moving along at 80-85. .. good luck


Probably talking out of my ass but a few beers after work helps me with that .