1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Help Me Settle a Debate

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Ossaris, Jul 5, 2018.

?

What do you think?

Poll closed Jul 12, 2018.
  1. You totally can... Its one vehicle with 2 "passengers"

    3 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. Nope, total BS.

    18 vote(s)
    85.7%
  1. Jul 5, 2018 at 10:38 AM
    #1
    Ossaris

    Ossaris [OP] A Bad Person Doing Good Things

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Member:
    #185437
    Messages:
    1,175
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Aliens
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2016 TRD OR 4x4 w/ 6112s & 5160s
    Lights for days! Sasquachified!
    A bit of background here... My wife just wrapped up law school and is intensely preparing for the bar. Part of her studying methods include me thinking of hypothetical situations that she would have to explain the law and outcome for. Well, last night, on the way home from Independence Day festivities, I came up with a situation that just stumped her... because it is simply ridiculous. Now, I'm asking for YOUR help to help us settle a rather lengthy and spirited debate!

    Here's the scenario:

    If you were driving solo in your car/truck and rammed into the back of another car that also had a single driver with such force that the vehicles fuse together, would you be allowed to use the carpool lane?

    Would love to hear all the various (absurd and reasonable) pros and cons.
     
  2. Jul 5, 2018 at 10:42 AM
    #2
    WATaco

    WATaco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Member:
    #147290
    Messages:
    336
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ed
    Seattle-ish, WA
    Vehicle:
    '14 Tacoma ORD
    Leer, AllPro sliders, Prinsu, OME, JBA UCA
    Aside from being dead? I seem to recall the Mythbusters addressing whether two cars could actually "fuse" in a crash, but assuming you don't simply mean bumpers being tangled, "fusing" would imply such force that I'd guess the cars would no longer be drivable, physically or legally, anyway.
     
  3. Jul 5, 2018 at 10:48 AM
    #3
    Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Member:
    #5269
    Messages:
    5,135
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Frank
    Rocklin, Ca.
    Vehicle:
    2001 prerunner doublecab limited
    2001 with; cat-back side-swept twin exhaust, elbow mod, Westin bullbar with Hella 450 driving lights, Snugtop XTR camper shell, TRD off-road 2x4-black beauty.
    Maybe she thinks your scenario is so absurd she's not even gonna entertain it:D
     
  4. Jul 5, 2018 at 10:51 AM
    #4
    Ossaris

    Ossaris [OP] A Bad Person Doing Good Things

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Member:
    #185437
    Messages:
    1,175
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Aliens
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2016 TRD OR 4x4 w/ 6112s & 5160s
    Lights for days! Sasquachified!
    Not even gonna try to deny that one. It is beyond insane
     
  5. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:37 AM
    #5
    Norsemanvike

    Norsemanvike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Member:
    #244562
    Messages:
    5,235
    Gender:
    Male
    Escondido, CA
    Vehicle:
    '18 Sport 4x4, DblCb, ShBd, BBP
    Well, ask your wife this question... If conjoined twins are driving a car, can they use the carpool lane?

    This is an actual situation that you can google. They were licensed to drive, but I don’t remember the carpool aspect.

    I would think that fused cars would be similar.
     
    scottalot likes this.
  6. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:40 AM
    #6
    toyotatacomaTRD

    toyotatacomaTRD Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Member:
    #43379
    Messages:
    4,356
    Gender:
    Male
    Are both vehicles registered? Two vehicles, no car pool lane.
     
    tcjacado and boynoyce like this.
  7. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:49 AM
    #7
    huff.jeremy

    huff.jeremy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Member:
    #27387
    Messages:
    128
    Gender:
    Male
    Illinois
    Vehicle:
    2010 MagGray SR5 Access Cab, 4x4, 2.7L, 5spd
    OME 884's, OME shocks, Wheelers 1.5" AAL, Light Racing UCA, Jason Fiberglass top, URD Short Shifter, Fog Lights
    I hope your wife isn't too worried whether questions such as these will appear on the Bar Exam; they typically ask general questions that do not require that the test-taker memorize each and every state statute of the thousands that exist. But... I hear California's test is different.

    To answer the question you posed, knowing the statute in question and any related subsequent court rulings would be key (and hopefully the relevant text would be provided if on the test).

    Any law that creates and regulates car-pooling should also contain definitions for, or specifically define "what a vehicle is" for the purposes of the law, in addition to listing the requirements that need to be met for such a vehicle to use those lanes.

    For example: If the statute defines an eligible vehicle as "A vehicle capable of carrying passengers, with no more than two axles", then a fused assembly of two vehicles would not meet the obvious standard. If the statute was simply worded as "A vehicle carrying more than one passenger is eligible to car pool" then you have a better argument that the fused vehicle is "A vehicle" and is carrying more than one passenger. Then she would look at any court cases that reference this law and that have any circumstances that resemble this case: Maybe a previous court ruled that "one solo passenger in a tow vehicle, and another solo passenger in a towed camper" do not meet the requirement of being "A vehicle" under this law because it contains two separate frames and each has a separate registration.

    In that case, your wife could argue both sides (getting extra points for doing so) in an attempt to persuade the current "court" that either (a) this fused vehicle is one single vehicle under the law because if the vehicles fused so perfectly, including the frames, the result is one frame carrying two passengers and thus eligible for carpool. Or on the other hand, (b) each vehicle is still registered independently and thus the combined vehicle does not meet the second part of the courts test in determining what is defined as a vehicle.

    And most importantly, (c) If the current court follows precedent, because the fused vehicle does not meet the two part test laid out by the previous court, which defines what vehicles are eligible to carpool, this fused vehicle will LIKELY not be found eligible to carpool and they drivers will owe the fines issued.
     
    boynoyce likes this.
  8. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:55 AM
    #8
    se7enine

    se7enine MCMLXXIX

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Member:
    #102322
    Messages:
    23,445
    Gender:
    Male
    Reno, NV
    Vehicle:
    07 Lexus GX470, 84 4Runner 3RZ, 85 MR2
    Not to mention you both are fleeing the scene of the accident.
     
  9. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:56 AM
    #9
    Biscuits

    Biscuits Thorny Crown of Entropy

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Member:
    #41397
    Messages:
    15,576
    Gender:
    Male
    Swiggity swangin' biggity bangin'
    What is the required number of people to be legally permitted to drive on the carpool/high occupancy lane?

    What is the legal definition of a vehicle?

    What, if any, case law applies?
     
    huff.jeremy likes this.
  10. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:57 AM
    #10
    knayrb

    knayrb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Member:
    #32473
    Messages:
    2,218
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bryan
    Somewhere in the square states
    Vehicle:
    2010 Dbl-Cab Off-Road
    Pure stock
    No because having 2 vehicles fused together wouldn't meet federal/state vehicle safety standards. You couldn't legally license such a pile of iron and therefore would not be allowed on the road - let alone the carpool lane.

    (Everyone's entitled to my opinion)

    Edited to include "state" standards.
     
    Biscuits likes this.
  11. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:59 AM
    #11
    Biscuits

    Biscuits Thorny Crown of Entropy

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Member:
    #41397
    Messages:
    15,576
    Gender:
    Male
    Swiggity swangin' biggity bangin'
    Which are what?

    (Don't forget about state safety standards as well as what legally constitutes a vehicle in the state.)
     
  12. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:59 AM
    #12
    WSW3

    WSW3 @willwitecki

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Member:
    #192852
    Messages:
    501
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Will
    Connecticut
    Vehicle:
    '08 Tacoma DCSB TRD Sport
    Scratches, dents, and a lot of miles
    If you both flee the scene of the accident and no one reports it, did an accident even happen?
     
    landphil and huff.jeremy like this.
  13. Jul 5, 2018 at 11:59 AM
    #13
    knayrb

    knayrb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Member:
    #32473
    Messages:
    2,218
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bryan
    Somewhere in the square states
    Vehicle:
    2010 Dbl-Cab Off-Road
    Pure stock
    Illegal vehicle modifications.
     
    WSW3 likes this.
  14. Jul 5, 2018 at 12:00 PM
    #14
    WSW3

    WSW3 @willwitecki

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Member:
    #192852
    Messages:
    501
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Will
    Connecticut
    Vehicle:
    '08 Tacoma DCSB TRD Sport
    Scratches, dents, and a lot of miles
    4 axle passenger vehicles aren't california legal?
     
  15. Jul 5, 2018 at 12:03 PM
    #15
    Biscuits

    Biscuits Thorny Crown of Entropy

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Member:
    #41397
    Messages:
    15,576
    Gender:
    Male
    Swiggity swangin' biggity bangin'
    Again, which means what?

    What is federally mandated and what isn't?

    At what point are the two vehicles fused together? Is the new vehicle now an ugly abortion of a limousine?

    @Ossaris

    If you could provide a picture, preferably via MS Paint for clarity, it would be of great benefit to this debate.
     
  16. Jul 5, 2018 at 12:05 PM
    #16
    Ossaris

    Ossaris [OP] A Bad Person Doing Good Things

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Member:
    #185437
    Messages:
    1,175
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Aliens
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2016 TRD OR 4x4 w/ 6112s & 5160s
    Lights for days! Sasquachified!
    Sorry, you all need evidence to work with! Assume this as the situation
    upload_2018-7-5_12-5-56.jpg
     
    knayrb, huff.jeremy and Biscuits like this.
  17. Jul 5, 2018 at 12:07 PM
    #17
    Ossaris

    Ossaris [OP] A Bad Person Doing Good Things

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Member:
    #185437
    Messages:
    1,175
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Aliens
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    2016 TRD OR 4x4 w/ 6112s & 5160s
    Lights for days! Sasquachified!
    That is not the point here
     
  18. Jul 5, 2018 at 12:30 PM
    #18
    batacoma

    batacoma Truck Wars

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    Member:
    #229983
    Messages:
    10,386
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2012 Regular Cab 4spd
    Has she consluted a divorce attorney yet?
     
    landphil, Itchyfeet, boynoyce and 3 others like this.
  19. Jul 5, 2018 at 12:33 PM
    #19
    tcjacado

    tcjacado Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Member:
    #195947
    Messages:
    41,586
    It's definitely going to have different front and rear plates.
     
  20. Jul 5, 2018 at 1:50 PM
    #20
    knayrb

    knayrb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Member:
    #32473
    Messages:
    2,218
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Bryan
    Somewhere in the square states
    Vehicle:
    2010 Dbl-Cab Off-Road
    Pure stock
    Okay. I give up. You win. The imaginary vehicle was already crash tested per federal requirements. I'm sure it complied and has a 12 star rating. ;-)
     
    landphil and Biscuits[QUOTED] like this.

Products Discussed in

To Top