1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Help me understand why a spacer lift is bad (front) and 5100's are good.

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by Geosh, May 10, 2013.

  1. May 10, 2013 at 9:04 AM
    #1
    Geosh

    Geosh [OP] Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Member:
    #98084
    Messages:
    177
    Gender:
    Male
    Chandler, AZ
    Vehicle:
    '03 PreRunner DC, 3.4L
    I have an 03 Double Cab Prerunner that I recently purchased and the original owner put spacers above the front shock assembly to level the front end. I think it is a 2" lift.

    I am looking to upgrade suspension now but don't want to degrade the ride. I just bought some 5100's for the front (deal from DSM) and just wanted to check before I proceed with install. With using the 5100's for a lift with stock springs, is preloading the springs at the 2.5" setting going to make things a lot stiffer compared to the spacer lift I currently have? If so, would running some Eibach's at the .85 or zero setting going to give me a better ride with a comparable lift?

    Trying to do things on a budget as I still want to get some Icon Progressive AAL's for the back, but I don't want to go too cheap and hate it.
     
  2. May 10, 2013 at 9:21 AM
    #2
    Lumpskie

    Lumpskie Independent Thinker

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Member:
    #102450
    Messages:
    1,897
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    '96, 4x4, v6, manual hub
    Toytec 16" coilovers with Tundra Bilstein 5100s, Light Racing UCAs, Alcan Leafs with Orbit Eyes, 12" Bilstein 7100 short Bodies, ARB rear locker, 33x12.5 Duratracs, CBI sliders, Bushwacker fender flares, self made front bumper, M8000, Vision X 6.7" Hi/Lo Beam HIDs, full skids, Inchworm dual case setup - 15º clocking
    I think I see what you're saying here... Either way you are increasing the distance between your UCA and LCA. With a spacer it is done at the top of your spring assembly and with the 5100 shock lift, it is done at the bottom. My only guess would be the stability of the whole assembly. Changing the bottom perch gives you an identical interface with the spring as before, whereas adding a spacer to the top of the assembly introduces a new member into the system. Some spacers are made of aluminum, while others are made of rubber or poly. Each of the spacers rely on putting your 3 top bolts into tension. This vertical tension must stabilize longitudinal and lateral forces over a longer moment arm. Maybe there is less structural strength in torsional and shear loads because of this? I don't know, this is just a guess.
     
  3. May 10, 2013 at 9:30 AM
    #3
    The Traveler

    The Traveler REBELTACO

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Member:
    #75806
    Messages:
    6,784
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Matt
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    '10 Long Travel 4x4 DCSB
    Total Chaos 3.5" LT kit, King remote resi 8x2.5 coilovers, Glassworks Unlimited fiberglass fenders and bedsides, Icon resi rears, All Pro Expo leaf pack, Wheeler's super bumps, drop in AFE Pro Dry-S, Aero-Turbine 2525XL Muffler, Spidertrax, Rigid Industries Dually Amber Floods, rock lights, Strobe amber/white dust lights, bushwhacker fender flares, CB and HAM radios, Pelfreybilt Off Road front three hoop bumper, All-Pro APEX kickout sliders, CBI Trail Rider rear bumper, Tres Tacos LED rock lights, 50" LED Light Bar,
    5100's at 2.5" on stock springs will give you a rough ride. That is a lot of preload on those springs, so you're down-travel. With 5100's set at 0 or .85 with lift coils, you will retain a close to factory ride, and still get about 2.5-2.75" of lift. It will also feel much better offroad as well with the new springs.

    The reason why 5100's are better than spacers is that with spacers, you are increasing the overall length of the shock assembly without increasing the length of the shock or the rod inside it. That leaves you to being prone to bottoming out the shock before you hit the bump stop. And that is what leads to shocks snapping at the lower mount stem. With 5100's the spring itself is doing all the lifting. When using stock springs at 2.5", you are not allowing the spring to compress as much when the tires hit the ground. With OME 885's or Eibachs, the coils are taller and firmer giving you the lift.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  4. May 10, 2013 at 9:36 AM
    #4
    Lumpskie

    Lumpskie Independent Thinker

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Member:
    #102450
    Messages:
    1,897
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    '96, 4x4, v6, manual hub
    Toytec 16" coilovers with Tundra Bilstein 5100s, Light Racing UCAs, Alcan Leafs with Orbit Eyes, 12" Bilstein 7100 short Bodies, ARB rear locker, 33x12.5 Duratracs, CBI sliders, Bushwacker fender flares, self made front bumper, M8000, Vision X 6.7" Hi/Lo Beam HIDs, full skids, Inchworm dual case setup - 15º clocking
    ^I see what you're saying. So we're not assuming equal length shocks...
     
  5. May 10, 2013 at 9:42 AM
    #5
    Wrx2Taco

    Wrx2Taco Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Member:
    #75913
    Messages:
    34
    Gender:
    Male
    Northern Cal/da Burgh
    Vehicle:
    06 Prerunner
    Truth be told, I have 5100s set at 2.5 on stock springs and they ride better than the stock trd bilstiens. I'd imagine buying a set of Eibach/OME and pairing them with the 5100s would result in an ever better ride but I honestly don't feel the need to
     
  6. May 10, 2013 at 9:46 AM
    #6
    The Traveler

    The Traveler REBELTACO

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Member:
    #75806
    Messages:
    6,784
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Matt
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    '10 Long Travel 4x4 DCSB
    Total Chaos 3.5" LT kit, King remote resi 8x2.5 coilovers, Glassworks Unlimited fiberglass fenders and bedsides, Icon resi rears, All Pro Expo leaf pack, Wheeler's super bumps, drop in AFE Pro Dry-S, Aero-Turbine 2525XL Muffler, Spidertrax, Rigid Industries Dually Amber Floods, rock lights, Strobe amber/white dust lights, bushwhacker fender flares, CB and HAM radios, Pelfreybilt Off Road front three hoop bumper, All-Pro APEX kickout sliders, CBI Trail Rider rear bumper, Tres Tacos LED rock lights, 50" LED Light Bar,
    There's no way unless your springs are blown. How many miles have they been riding like that? I know for me, they were stiff as hell on TRD OR springs set at 2.5" and that was for like 5 months. I soon replaced them with Icon coilovers.
     
  7. May 10, 2013 at 9:58 AM
    #7
    Lumpskie

    Lumpskie Independent Thinker

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Member:
    #102450
    Messages:
    1,897
    Gender:
    Male
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    '96, 4x4, v6, manual hub
    Toytec 16" coilovers with Tundra Bilstein 5100s, Light Racing UCAs, Alcan Leafs with Orbit Eyes, 12" Bilstein 7100 short Bodies, ARB rear locker, 33x12.5 Duratracs, CBI sliders, Bushwacker fender flares, self made front bumper, M8000, Vision X 6.7" Hi/Lo Beam HIDs, full skids, Inchworm dual case setup - 15º clocking
    ^I don't think this is right. As you change the bottom perch location on the shock body, while leaving the top mount location the same, you are changing the length of the shock. The difference is that you typically get a longer shock when you go with a 5100.
     
  8. May 10, 2013 at 10:05 AM
    #8
    SDHQ OFFROAD

    SDHQ OFFROAD Cuz Stock Sucks!

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Member:
    #3916
    Messages:
    1,996
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    SALES
    Gilbert AZ
    Vehicle:
    Caged and Linked 2008 4x4
    Camburg Long Travel and 9" Rear End, Caged and 3 Linked Icon Shocks PCI Race Radios Method Wheels Toyo Tires Mastercraft Seats and Belts
    The 5100's are valved to be used with stock coils, so going to a different coil will effect the ride. I would stick with the stockers

    Could be the TRD springs have a bit stiffer rate, but Still a good choice going to the icon's.

    If the Icon's are in the budget that's the way to go, but a 5100 with stock coils is the next best option..
     
  9. May 10, 2013 at 10:08 AM
    #9
    Geosh

    Geosh [OP] Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Member:
    #98084
    Messages:
    177
    Gender:
    Male
    Chandler, AZ
    Vehicle:
    '03 PreRunner DC, 3.4L
    THAT makes sense. So for springs, what is the best combo for a nice ride (that will net ~2.5" of lift)? Toytec/Eibach's? An OME spring, and if so which one?
     
  10. May 10, 2013 at 10:11 AM
    #10
    The Traveler

    The Traveler REBELTACO

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Member:
    #75806
    Messages:
    6,784
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Matt
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    '10 Long Travel 4x4 DCSB
    Total Chaos 3.5" LT kit, King remote resi 8x2.5 coilovers, Glassworks Unlimited fiberglass fenders and bedsides, Icon resi rears, All Pro Expo leaf pack, Wheeler's super bumps, drop in AFE Pro Dry-S, Aero-Turbine 2525XL Muffler, Spidertrax, Rigid Industries Dually Amber Floods, rock lights, Strobe amber/white dust lights, bushwhacker fender flares, CB and HAM radios, Pelfreybilt Off Road front three hoop bumper, All-Pro APEX kickout sliders, CBI Trail Rider rear bumper, Tres Tacos LED rock lights, 50" LED Light Bar,
    Let me explain it this way...

    TRD shocks have a certain length of travel, designed to move up and down within those means and either bottoming out, or hitting the bumpstop at either extremes. But when you add inches from the coil bucket to the LCA mount without adding inches of up travel, you risk breaking your shock each time you go full compression. The shock will bottom out long before the bump stop hits the LCA.
     
  11. May 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM
    #11
    Geosh

    Geosh [OP] Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Member:
    #98084
    Messages:
    177
    Gender:
    Male
    Chandler, AZ
    Vehicle:
    '03 PreRunner DC, 3.4L
    Hmmm.... need to do more research I guess. Maybe I will just put them in with the stock coils for now and see what happens.

    I understand what you are saying Traveller about the length of stroke available by the shocks, and bottoming the shock out.

    BTW, I have the stock Tokico TRD shocks. I assume the 5100's valved a little stiffer to handle a preloaded stock spring?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013
  12. May 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM
    #12
    SDHQ OFFROAD

    SDHQ OFFROAD Cuz Stock Sucks!

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Member:
    #3916
    Messages:
    1,996
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    SALES
    Gilbert AZ
    Vehicle:
    Caged and Linked 2008 4x4
    Camburg Long Travel and 9" Rear End, Caged and 3 Linked Icon Shocks PCI Race Radios Method Wheels Toyo Tires Mastercraft Seats and Belts
    5100's and stock springs.

    I have some 5100's here on the shelf and were local.
     
  13. May 10, 2013 at 10:19 AM
    #13
    SDHQ OFFROAD

    SDHQ OFFROAD Cuz Stock Sucks!

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Member:
    #3916
    Messages:
    1,996
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    SALES
    Gilbert AZ
    Vehicle:
    Caged and Linked 2008 4x4
    Camburg Long Travel and 9" Rear End, Caged and 3 Linked Icon Shocks PCI Race Radios Method Wheels Toyo Tires Mastercraft Seats and Belts
    Correct. And that would be a good idea, See how you like it with the stock springs, then if you want to try a different one go that route, no need in spending the additional $ if you don't need to
     
  14. May 10, 2013 at 10:31 AM
    #14
    The Traveler

    The Traveler REBELTACO

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Member:
    #75806
    Messages:
    6,784
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Matt
    SoCal
    Vehicle:
    '10 Long Travel 4x4 DCSB
    Total Chaos 3.5" LT kit, King remote resi 8x2.5 coilovers, Glassworks Unlimited fiberglass fenders and bedsides, Icon resi rears, All Pro Expo leaf pack, Wheeler's super bumps, drop in AFE Pro Dry-S, Aero-Turbine 2525XL Muffler, Spidertrax, Rigid Industries Dually Amber Floods, rock lights, Strobe amber/white dust lights, bushwhacker fender flares, CB and HAM radios, Pelfreybilt Off Road front three hoop bumper, All-Pro APEX kickout sliders, CBI Trail Rider rear bumper, Tres Tacos LED rock lights, 50" LED Light Bar,
    SDHQ OFFROAD">
    Agreed.

    BTW, thanks a TON for sending me those Icon coilovers and rear shocks this week. Icon was fresh out and you guys had them in stock. Customer picked up his Taco yesterday and was amazed at how great it rides with the mid travel setup. We also put TC upper arms and Deaver J66 leaf packs on it.

    Looking forward to doing more business with you guys. :thumbsup:
     
  15. May 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM
    #15
    SDHQ OFFROAD

    SDHQ OFFROAD Cuz Stock Sucks!

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Member:
    #3916
    Messages:
    1,996
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    SALES
    Gilbert AZ
    Vehicle:
    Caged and Linked 2008 4x4
    Camburg Long Travel and 9" Rear End, Caged and 3 Linked Icon Shocks PCI Race Radios Method Wheels Toyo Tires Mastercraft Seats and Belts
    No worries! Glad it went good! We try to have all Toyota stuff in stock always. Let us know if you need anything else.

    -Vince
     
  16. May 10, 2013 at 10:52 AM
    #16
    Geosh

    Geosh [OP] Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Member:
    #98084
    Messages:
    177
    Gender:
    Male
    Chandler, AZ
    Vehicle:
    '03 PreRunner DC, 3.4L
    SDHQ OFFROAD">
    I just bought the set that DownSouth listed yesterday for $100 ;) so I am good in the front. I may need a set for the rear and an Icon progressive AAL soon though (my birthday is coming up and the wife is fishing for ideas).
     
  17. May 10, 2013 at 10:55 AM
    #17
    SDHQ OFFROAD

    SDHQ OFFROAD Cuz Stock Sucks!

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Member:
    #3916
    Messages:
    1,996
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    SALES
    Gilbert AZ
    Vehicle:
    Caged and Linked 2008 4x4
    Camburg Long Travel and 9" Rear End, Caged and 3 Linked Icon Shocks PCI Race Radios Method Wheels Toyo Tires Mastercraft Seats and Belts
    Nice! Send her on down! We have rear and AAL's in stock too.
     
  18. May 10, 2013 at 11:22 AM
    #18
    DevL

    DevL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Member:
    #31952
    Messages:
    1,920
    Gender:
    Male
    You are not increasing distance between uca and lca. That distance is fixed by the spindle and hinge mounts.
     
  19. May 10, 2013 at 11:24 AM
    #19
    DevL

    DevL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Member:
    #31952
    Messages:
    1,920
    Gender:
    Male
    Depends on spacer location. A spacer that preloads vs on top of assembly does not increase length and works like the 5100 to provide lift.
     
  20. May 10, 2013 at 11:26 AM
    #20
    DevL

    DevL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Member:
    #31952
    Messages:
    1,920
    Gender:
    Male
    You are not changing the bottom shock mount location, just preloading springs from the bottom.
     
To Top