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Help - Possible short?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by holeinone604, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. Jan 7, 2011 at 6:45 PM
    #1
    holeinone604

    holeinone604 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So I installed hella 500 black magics behind the grill and followed this guide to a tee: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/lighting/79832-hella-500-hid-conversion-mount-behind-satoshi-how-w-pics.html

    The only difference that I did with the wiring of them was I drew power for my switch from the fuse box in the cabin of the truck using an "add a fuse" pictured below:
    [​IMG]

    I put the add a fuse into the 10A - Tail slot.

    So this was my first time really wiring anything so I did a lot of research and followed all the instructions as closely as I could. Everything has been fine for the past couple weeks but there was the odd rare occasion that I thought I could smell a really faint burnt/dusty smell. Visually all the wires looked fine and everything was working fine so I chalked this up to my paranoia.

    The fog light housings I ordered arrived from ebay so I poped them in a couple nights ago. Truck is all prewired for the fogs so it was a really easy install with a stock OEM switch and OEM Denso relay for fuse box under the hood. Only add on to this was the DDM raptor 35W, 3000K kit (it was a really easy plug and play add on though).

    All is working fine both hellas and the fogs.

    Today I go to fire up the truck after its been parked in the cold for about 9 hours and it was really slow to turn over. I probably could have got it to turn over on the first attempt if I held on a little longer but didn't and it fired up on the second attempt after some noticeable delay.

    Whats the problem the new OEM fogs with the DDM kit or my wiring job on the hellas?

    I assumed my wiring job so I have disconnected the power to the switch and the power to the relay from the battery until I figure things out. I have started the truck a few times since coming home and it fires up as normal and all the lights worked fine up until I disconnected the power to the hellas. I didn't want to mess with a slow leak until I get some feedback on this. Does it sound like a short of some sort?

    Thanks in advance for feedback!

    If it helps here is a rough pic of how I wired everything up: (ground from switch is in cabin behind kick panel not though firewall as shown in picture)
    [​IMG]

    Used this switch:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jan 7, 2011 at 9:55 PM
    #2
    RZRob

    RZRob Well-Known Member

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    I'm just curious but did you possibly tap into non-switched power (i.e. not powered only when key is on)? You might be feeding the light on the switch or relay continuously. I didn't think this through too much, but you might check if the lead is "hot" even with the key off.

    RZ Rob
     
  3. Jan 7, 2011 at 10:10 PM
    #3
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Nice drawing you got there...

    Take the power with the add a fuse from IGN 1 at least then it works with the key.

    Chances are you forgot to turn them off and drained the battery.

    It's live a learn. Don't add things to the truck on dedicated power lines. Best to grab power off switched one if you are using a relay which you should be.

    Not sure if the brake is constant power or not but it would make sense if it was. If you had a trailer you might need power back there even with the key removed. I'm not going to bother looking on the prints to see if it's that way or not.

    To test for a short.

    Disconnect the grounds on the new circuit then with a meter test the hot to ground, it can be dead at the time for it conducting. If it conducts there is a short to ground. Disconnecting the grounds from that circuit should isolate it from ground so therefore if you have low resistance from the positive to ground on the new circuit then there is a short.
     
  4. Jan 9, 2011 at 12:29 PM
    #4
    holeinone604

    holeinone604 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the feedback... can you give me hand with locating IGN 1?

    If it helps the location I had the add a fuse 10a - tail works with the keys. If I turn off the truck the lights turn off. In addition with that location they won't work unless the head lights are turned on. So I am assuming even if I left them on (which I'm almost certain I didn't as I don't use them in the city ever) there would be no drain happening. I am using a relay.

    Would this likely mean that I have a short to ground?
    Would a short to ground potentially be causing excessive drain on the battery while in use and lead to the really slow start up?
    Is it possible to have a short to ground causing excessive drain while at the same time the lights work fine?

    Since I have disconnected the power to the relay and the power to the switch I have had no issues.

    I will try the test you mentioned.
     
  5. Jan 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM
    #5
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Yes

    If that spot you took is switched with the key then it's fine. Fuse locations are spelled out in you manual near the end of the book.

    You must have a short there somewhere so the key to finding it is disconnect all the grounds on that run then with a meter test the positive wire to ground to see if you have low resistance. If you do you have some sort of a ground fault. Find and fix. It should be very high resistance positive to ground with the grounds disconnected.

    Once you find and fix it then you can hook the grounds back up and it should then work fine.
     
  6. Jan 9, 2011 at 3:00 PM
    #6
    84Hilux

    84Hilux Well-Known Member

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    How many posts do you have running on this subject? Anyway, what Trap says is good advice.
     
  7. Jan 9, 2011 at 3:46 PM
    #7
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    I think he has only one but I could be wrong.

    Somebody else reminded me of a different possibility. You might have a relay there that has a free wheeling diode built in. On those relays the polarity of the coil wires in critical. If you get them the wrong way on the diode will conduct creating a seemingly short. Thing is if you do have it that way the light should also never come on cause the voltage drop across the diode will be to small for the relay to work.

    The easy fix it just swap wires on terminals 85 and 86 of the relay. 85 should be the negative side of the relay coil and 86 should be the positive side. You can check it with a meter to ground if you want.

    86 to ground should show near twelve volts and 85 to ground should show zero volts. There will be numbers on the relay to show which terminal is which. Something you might want to check. If you don't get that result with the meter just swap the two wires around.
     
  8. Jan 10, 2011 at 6:31 AM
    #8
    Wattapunk

    Wattapunk Stay lifted my friends !

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    Get out a voltmeter and check voltage at the relay. That 'tail' slot you used for power probably is not ignition switched but constant 12v. Also the relay port for Ballast also should not have 12v with key off.
     
  9. Jan 11, 2011 at 3:09 PM
    #9
    holeinone604

    holeinone604 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    One in lighting that wasn't getting much action so posted it here as well...I know probably a party foul. Mods can deleate the other.
     
  10. Jan 11, 2011 at 3:15 PM
    #10
    holeinone604

    holeinone604 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    The tail 10a that the add a fuse is in isn't constant 12v it will only work with the keys more specifically the headlights in the on position. I cannot turn on the lights with the switch unless the headlights are turned on. When the truck is off the switch does not work and is not receiving any power as when you switch it on it will not illuminate (as it does when the truck is on, headlights are on, and when its switched to the on position).

    Haven't been using them (with the exception of a few tests here and there) but they are all wired up and have been fine last few days (problem has not resurfaced).

    Trap thanks for the help and once I get some time away from work (and the cold) I will be giving this a try.

    Gary taillights are working fine.
     
  11. Jan 11, 2011 at 6:29 PM
    #11
    holeinone604

    holeinone604 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Okay so I've done some testing with the multimeter....

    with the truck off it is reading high 12's (12.6ish)
    with the truck on it was up in the high 14's and low 15 initially
    after it ran for a couple minutes it settles to a pretty consistent 14.12 or there abouts.
    when I ran the head lights with just the OEM 35W HID fogs it stayed around the same
    when I ran the hella's as well it also stayed around the same 14.12 - 14.26 ish
    when I switched it all off (truck included) it was low 13's then seem to settle back around 12.6 ish.
    From what I have read this means things are generally functioning as they should.

    Maybe I will go for a tear and run all the lights for awhile and test after to see if there is any difference. Once I get some info on the positive wire Trap's referring to I will do that test.

    Starting to think there may be no issue at all...still can't get over wtf caused it to be slow slow in turning over.

    If there is a short to ground on one of the positive lines I wired up would that mean there would need to be some part of the connection or positive wire touching a ground where it shouldn't be? I used bullet crimp connections to connect to lights and end crimp connections in a couple places. I wrapped all the end type connections with electrical tape so a little tugging on the wire would be less likely to pull it loose and to give it a little more protection from the elements.
     
  12. Jan 11, 2011 at 6:55 PM
    #12
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Could be nothing to do with the lights period. Did you leave them on when the truck was not running. Many of the lights people run should only be on with the truck running. Some are really high drain and will take the battery down fast if it's older. Winter is even better cause if you do a lot of short trips the battery will already be down on charge. The batteries don't really charge up worth a damn in the winter. Most of the initial charge in the winter is lost just to heat the battery up. By the time it gets warm enough to take a charge you will have arrived at your destination.

    Cant really test for shorts with voltage. You want to really disconnect the battery and the grounds on the new circuit wires then with a meter on resistance test from the new wires hots to ground. If you have low resistance you have a short somewhere on the new wiring.

    Touch the probes together to get a idea what a short will look like on the meter. If you don't get then then low resistance on the new wires then there is no short and you can put it all back together again. Test all the wires on the new circuit to ground one at a time. You don't have to test the ground on the new circuit. Would not matter if there was a short there.

    If that is the original battery it could be getting warn down. You could try putting it on charge over night. If you have ever killed that battery in the past it's way more likely it is now showing it age.

    You need a load tester to test the battery. It's the current you are trying to test and not the voltage. A load tester tests current. You don't want to buy one of those cause they're pricey. Just borrow one if you can or stop at a shop and see if they will test it for you. Most places should do it free of charge. If they want money keep driving.
     
  13. Jan 11, 2011 at 7:46 PM
    #13
    holeinone604

    holeinone604 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Trap thanks for your help on this.
    I will get the battery checked out tomorrow and tackle disconnecting all the power and grounds to test for shorts on the weekend.

    I guess I was wrong to assume it had to be due to the lights I added...

    Reading another post about peoples factory battery only lasting about 2 years in some cases and needing to be replaced.

    I am still under warranty and if the battery is toast to no fault of my own do you think toyota will warranty it for me when they see the aftermarket lights in there?

    I've never killed the battery in the past...jumped a buddy a couple times but thats it. Haven't left the lights on as they go off automatically when the truck is shut off and keys are removed from ignition.

    Hope stealer ship doesn't try to screw me out of a new battery if its dead already....
     
  14. Jan 12, 2011 at 12:54 AM
    #14
    Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Depends how old it is. If it's a few years old they will only prorate it meaning they will knock of a bit of cash off a new battery. They don't last forever. They give you a cash allowance of the time left on the warranty towards a new battery. New lights will not make a difference. It's minor in the life of a battery. Running it down even a single time will do 1000 times more damage. They don't really recover from that well and come back to about 70% of there former power level.

    On batteries usually the warranty is about 1 year longer then the battery is expected to last. That way they can get a new battery sale out of it.

    Sometimes they last way longer though. It depends on how brutal your winter is and how short your winter driving trips are.

    Some places it's so cold the battery does not really charge at all in the winter. You get about two years out of them then. If it has a five year warranty you get three years worth against a new one. Not many places like that though so some places they indeed loose money on them. But they get a repeat customer out of it. Even then they still make money on them chances are.
     
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