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HIDs in Stock Reflectors

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by goufcustom, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Nov 22, 2011 at 8:17 AM
    #1
    goufcustom

    goufcustom [OP] 7.62x63mm

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    Would you recommend installing a high/low HID kit in a stock relfector without a projector?
     
  2. Nov 22, 2011 at 8:18 AM
    #2
    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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  3. Nov 22, 2011 at 8:26 AM
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    iroc409

    iroc409 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Try Osram 65w/70w H4 replacement bulbs instead. They are available through candlepowerinc.com.
     
  4. Nov 22, 2011 at 8:28 AM
    #4
    KPT

    KPT sees what you did there.

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    If you do it, be sure to only get 35w, and aim your headlights properly as to not blind oncoming drivers.
     
  5. Nov 22, 2011 at 8:37 AM
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    AsianAnts

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  6. Nov 22, 2011 at 8:44 AM
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    GP3

    GP3 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. Nov 22, 2011 at 8:55 AM
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    iroc409

    iroc409 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You can't aim out light scatter. Additionally, aiming them down reduces their effectiveness for you as the driver (lose distance, for one).

    So, aiming them down doesn't resolve the issue, and makes it less safe for you.

    I think most people that install these live and drive in the city. Coming around a corner in a pitch-black environment on windy mountain roads could have really bad consequences. I've had to practically stop to wait for someone with blinding lights to pass.
     
  8. Nov 22, 2011 at 10:12 AM
    #8
    mbrogz3000

    mbrogz3000 Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that any HIDs are glaring, annoying and distracting to look at even when they are in a properly motorized, self leveling, lensed lamp housing of a BMW. I had a pair of phillips HIDs in my mazda6, which had lensed projectors on the low beam lamps, for the 8 years I owned it and never had any excessive issues with offending oncoming drivers or causing added hazard, stopping, swerving, etc.

    My ancedotal evaluation on night driving in my retired Mazda6 and my 2 year old Rav4 (which still "only" has the OEM bulb in the main and fogs), is that people are going to flash you and get offended by your lo-beam light output regardless of your set up. You probably have a 50% chance of getting flashed either way.

    I just installed two pairs of DDM HID kits (35W) and have not been flashed yet by any oncomers. Your beam pattern is going to be identical to what you get with halogen bulbs, but the intensity is going to be much more consistent up to the edges of the existing pattern. Headlight aiming is straight, and foglights are still aimed about 5-6 feet out to the ground.
     
  9. Nov 22, 2011 at 10:25 AM
    #9
    Pugga

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    You are not going to be able to adjust a set of HID's in the stock Tacoma housing to have an identicle beam pattern as a halogen. Sorry, not gonna happen, the bulbs put out light much differently and the reflector will throw light differently. You can aim them down and make it do it's 'not that bad' but at that point you're better off getting brighter halogens that will have the proper cut off and throw light where they're supposed to. Not to mention, they'll still be legal vs. dropping HID's in a stock housing that was never intended to have them.
     
  10. Nov 22, 2011 at 12:30 PM
    #10
    iroc409

    iroc409 Well-Known Member

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    They can be, when you're under the cutoff it can be pretty brutal. Even halogens, if you're under the cutoff, can be blinding. That doesn't give anyone a free ticket to use improper lighting.

    Flashing your lights could make two blind motorists, which is even more dangerous. If they are really bright, half the time I'm shielding my eyes or taking evasive maneuvers, not flashing my lights. Flashing lights are a poor indicator of others' level of comfort.

    As the other poster said, the pattern is absolutely not the same. It has been tested, I've read some of the results, with very high-dollar test equipment. It's physics, man!

    I've been blinded plenty of times in DAYLIGHT with HID kits. I've had to let other cars around me-in daylight-because their lights were too bright.

    :(
     
  11. Nov 22, 2011 at 12:56 PM
    #11
    KPT

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    I have 35w's, properly aimed, and never get flashed by folks. And I live in a rural area.

    I'm not saying that the light doesn't scatter, and that retros aren't way better, I'm just saying there is a way to make it safe for you and the oncoming driver.
     
  12. Nov 22, 2011 at 1:01 PM
    #12
    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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    You also have the HID's with the shroud covering the bottom, correct? I don't think all the HID kits come with that shroud. That makes a huge difference when it comes to light scatter.
     
  13. Nov 22, 2011 at 1:03 PM
    #13
    KPT

    KPT sees what you did there.

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    That is correct, I have the shroud that covers the bottom.

    And just re-iterate, I'm not saying that HID's in stock housings isn't a cheap, half-assed solution, but I do not believe that I'm unsafe for myself or oncoming drivers. I would have uninstaled them if that were the case.
     
  14. Nov 22, 2011 at 2:10 PM
    #14
    iroc409

    iroc409 Well-Known Member

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    I almost wasn't going to post this, just because I figured there would be a high likelihood that it will fall on deaf ears. But, I took the time to write it, and I'll do my best to make this my last post here explaining the issues (I know... people don't want to hear it):

    As already stated, being flashed or not is not a good indicator of the performance of your headlights.

    The point is, the laws of physics and the properties of mathematics don't bend to the will of cheap Chinese electronics. You can't "properly aim" something that doesn't work.

    You can shoot .380 out of 9MM Parabellum, I've witnessed it. Does it work? Sort of, but not very well (it was the cause of reliability issues and poor accuracy in the case I witnessed). Would someone continue to use .380 in their 9MM just because it "kinda" works? No, most individuals see the potential harm and danger, and discontinue the practice.

    The HID kits often have very poor lighting distribution in halogen housings (even projectors, to a certain extent)--they create blotchyness in the light beam (light where it shouldn't be, no light where there should be).

    If you are aiming the lights down, they have a reduced distance--it's basic math. Think of a right triangle--the steeper the angle of the hypotenuse, the shorter the length of the base. You are reducing your visibility in aiming them down, and still not eliminating the glare issue.

    Aiming the lights down also contributes to another issue with HID kits. Generally with these kits, the foreground illumination is increased significantly due to the mis-aim/light distribution. This is part of what gives a person the perception of better light--more foreground lighting. By aiming the lamps down, this increases the foreground lighting even more.

    What is the problem with having more foreground illumination? You get distance-blind. You can't see what is further down the road. Foreground illumination is near-worthless at highway speed. If you don't see something in the road until 30 feet in front of your vehicle, you're not going to be able to miss it. 60 MPH is what, 88 feet per second? I don't think I could react AND maneuver the vehicle in a third of a second.

    You also have to consider the reliability of the systems involved. We constantly have people posting about their HID kits breaking. What if it happens on a mountain road, and your lights trip off? Sure, there are risks with the factory systems, but I'd wager a lot more R&D goes into them.

    If you genuinely are interested in the technical side of HID conversions (and why they are no good), check out this site:

    http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

    He also has links to documents of actual tests done by lighting laboratories with high-dollar test equipment. If you don't want to read all the jargon (and it's a lot of gibberish to someone like me that isn't in the industry), just look at the pictures in the studies. It's a marked difference.

    I did purchase and install a lighting kit before I actually did some research on automotive lighting. During the test drive, someone adjusted their interior mirror so they weren't being blinded by my lights. The reflection hit me hard enough that I went home and removed them, and now they collect dust in my garage.

    I think HID conversions are good for one thing. Off road lighting. They put out a ton of light, and converting a cheap set of lights for trail driving or a farm vehicle is great--but not on the highways.

    Anyway, I'm done preaching, and do my best to make this my last post on the subject here. I've come to the conclusion that most people willfully running HID kits don't care and want to do what they want to do regardless of how it affects others. Some certainly are out of ignorance (I was very guilty of this once). And, most people aren't interested in a buzz kill for for some cool, cheap mods. I don't really like being preachy, either.

    I have a set of projectors I desperately want to put in some HID's. From what I've read, they are identical to their HID cousins, except the bulb mounting. Buuuut... they are not designed for it. I'm certainly bummed that their HID counterparts cost almost 10x as much.

    I read a post about someone who had a kit in their projectors, and was convinced to switch them back to halogen after a professional opinion. Afterwards, the person vowed not to go back due to light distribution issues (with pictures to prove it). It was enough to convince me it still doesn't work.

    If you want some really nice halogen bulbs that work with factory wiring and put out a ton of light, get yourself a set of Osram 70w/65w bulbs. They are about $20 each from Candlepowerinc.com. They are seriously bright, and our Tacoma headlights are pretty good as far as factory halogens go. With those fresh bulbs, other than sheer distance, they rendered my Lightforce 240 Blitz lights (a pair) practically useless. Really!
     
  15. Nov 22, 2011 at 2:37 PM
    #15
    GP3

    GP3 Well-Known Member

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    How did the wiring harness hold up with the Osrams?
     
  16. Nov 22, 2011 at 4:05 PM
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    iroc409

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    I've had mine in for about a year, with no problems to report. The factory I believe has a 10A fuse per bulb filament, so they are well within that load. I did a voltage drop test recently, and they are at about .5v drop, so the bulbs run at 13.5v--which seems about optimal (despite the tiny size wires). That's actually above the output rating for the bulbs (but within lifetime rating), so when new they are probably actually putting out over 2000 lumens.

    The factory bulbs are 55W, and I think maybe 60W on high, so not a significant increase really.

    After a year they are still very bright, but after a recent trip home from the coast I can tell they have degraded a bit (expected).
     
  17. Nov 22, 2011 at 4:19 PM
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    4x4Taco09

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  18. Nov 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM
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    goufcustom

    goufcustom [OP] 7.62x63mm

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    Thanks for all the info, are these the Osram bulbs you are referencing? : http://store.candlepower.com/64205.html

    "Osram's 70/65W ultra high efficacy +50 H4 bulb, for motorcycles and special-service use, produces more light than any 60/55w bulb: 2000/1350 lumens, high/low beam. It is compatible with most stock wiring harnesses."
     
  19. Nov 22, 2011 at 5:05 PM
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    cummins6speed

    cummins6speed Well-Known Member

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    This is not at all true. HID's and halogens create light in completely different ways. Halogen bulbs create light by heating a filament, HID's create light with an arc between two electrodes which will have a completely different light output which halogen reflectors are not designed for.
     
  20. Nov 22, 2011 at 5:08 PM
    #20
    cummins6speed

    cummins6speed Well-Known Member

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    Should I start putting this shit in my signature?
     
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