High quality efficient home lighting using LEDs, HIRs and Halogens

Awesome write ups. What's your recommendation for candelabra base bulbs that dim with 500 + lumens in a dining room.

History: I bought some led filament style omnidirectional bulbs 2 yrs ago but the color rendering was not good, made medium rare steak look well done in my dining room. I replaced with cree bulbs last year with 90+ cri but they are directional and not bright enough as the bulbs face the cieling.

Also looking for an R20 or R16 110* flood with high cri as well.

 

I have the same kind of setup in my dining room but with the A19 base, it does make it a little more challenging to find a suitable quality LED replacement. Good observations for noticing lack of color quality and distribution. For your setup with candelabra based bulbs I would use the GE Relax 60w equivalent candelabra based bulbs. These have excellent CRI and omnidirectional light distribution.

https://www.gelighting.com/led-bulbs/e12/ge-hd-relax-60w-replacement-bc#

You can likely purchase them locally at Lowes:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Relax-60-Watt-EQ-Soft-White-Dimmable-Light-Bulbs-6-Pack/1000445419

I don't have an immediate recommendation for the R16 or R20 with 110* flood, typically flood is anything beyond 45* so looking for a 110* model requires a bit more work. GE and Cree both make R20 and R16 high CRI floods, but I don't see the specs on angle of distribution, and I would speculate that unless it is specifically called out as 110* in a flood, it is closer to 45*. Comparing the two in my limited testing, the GEs were a bit better in light quality at 94 CRI vs 92 with the Crees, but the Crees were ever so slightly whiter.

 

Fiet has now started producing omni-directional HD LED bulbs like GE. And they are very affordable when purchased in bulk at Costco:
https://www.costco.com/Feit-60W-LED-Replacement-Soft-White-Frosted-24-Pk.product.100482235.html

 

Any recommendation for pool lighting(light & fixture)? Pool is large 18x40 ft in-ground. I asked this over in the home improvement thread, but thought should I talk to the lighting expert.

Also I talked to an electrician and he recommended I install a 12 v pool light instead of replacing the 120v light I have with another 120 v. I plan to replace the outdoor GFCI and pool fixture anyway, should I go the 12 v route and install a transformer too?

 

I’m a bit out of the water when it comes to pool lighting. Residential pools are pretty uncommon in the Seattle area, so I really haven’t had much exposure.

12v LED pool lights seem like the way to go, being both safer, energy efficient and you shouldn’t have to worry about servicing it in the future. Beyond that though I’m not going to be much help on pool lights. Hopefully the home improvement thread provided you more details.

 

So much for that 10 year guarantee. Had one fail less than 9 months after install. They only came in packs of two, the fixture takes 3 so I do have a spare, but annoyed.

 

Tonight at an Outback Steakhouse we were seated at a table with a 3000k light that was too bright for the proximity to the table and too high of a color temperature for the setting. I noticed some of the other tables had softer 2700k lights. Rather than request a table move, I got up and switched the lights out with a near by table while that staff looked at me strangely. The dining ambience was much improved after correcting the lighting color and intensity error. The GF rolled her eyes at me at the time (she complained about the light) but then commented how much better it was afterward. It’s amazing how little details can make such a difference.

 

Good to see some sensible discussion of light quality, both here and on the fog-lamp thread.

Cree used to be my lamp of choice, back when they were the only "standard light bulb" ones with any decent CRI.

The PAR20 HIR bulbs are good, if you can still get them in your area. At $0.30 / kWh or more, they're too pricey for me to run compared to a 7-10 W LED in a dozen or more can lights.

SORAA's 02509 has served me well in GU10, 60° (Ra ~97, R1-8 > 90, R9 ~94, R12 ~80), but they seem to be no longer able to ship that series to California. These were some of the first "full spectrum" bulbs out there, though were "crazy expensive" ($25-30 each). They've worked well for me in ceiling, desk, as well as 4" cans with a GU10-E26 adapter instead of R20 bulbs (no wider-angle [PA]R20 LED bulbs with decent color rendering were available at the time).

CRI ("Ra") seems to have become a "tuning-point" for many manufacturers, hitting the eight, single-point measurement locations and ignoring the reset. California JA8 is at least pushing R9 (saturated red), so that's helping a bit. R8 (pastel pink, in Ra) and R12 (saturated blue) are still challenges.

EnergyStar ratings can reveal Ra and R9 values for manufacturers that don't publish their LM-79 results. LM-79 should have the extended test-patch data and is published or available on request from many manufacturers. (I believe it is required for the EnergyStar certification process.)

With the new California regulations in place this year, I'm trying out (all 3000 K)

• Green Creative, PAR20, 34895 -- trying in 4" cans as well as in range hood, will have to see how they fare with the grease
• Green Creative, MR16, GU5.3, 98486 -- Dimmability issues with magnetic ballast and Lutron Caseta PD-6WCL (dim well, though won't "strike" until 15-18%)
• Emery Allen, MR16, GU5.3, 60° EA-MR16-7.0W-60D-3090-D -- About the only 60° out there with decent color rendering

Having only had these installed for a week in a hallway and in a bedroom, and without a full-spectrum light meter, the best I can say right now "not annoying to a picky observer". The dimmability issue is annoying, but one that I expect to be able to work through (especially at a rough energy-cost savings of $5/month for the hallway lights).

4" wide-angle can replacements (retrofitting for some crap Cooper/Halo H4 Gen.1, 85 CRI, 4000 K, integrated cans that came with the house) are challenging. Green Creative makes the 97989 with Ra 93, R8 81, R9 59, R12 83. 90+ Lighting (which isn't always Ra > 90) has the PLT-11301, Euri Lighting with the DLC4-2000e, with similar Ra and, where available, R9 so I would guess similar (fair) color rendering. Hyperikon comes in with an R9 of 57, and I've already put them into the "decent in their day" category, especially as they aren't cheap in any way.

For the couple of E12/B11 applications I have, I'm running the "75 W" Cree bulbs, clear envelope, that are available at some Home Depot stores. Not thrilled by Cree's insistence on only producing 2700 K and 5000 K, but at $10 for two and that they aren't primary lighting, I'll deal with 2700 K. Home Depot's house brand EcoSmart has some promising high-CRI, 3000 K E12/B11 offerings listed at EnergyStar.gov, but not available through the stores or website at this time.

Another challenge has been replacing the three A19, clear-bulb, halogen-capsule, 72 W, 1200 lm bulbs in an over-table fixture. The Sylvania bulbs I used to buy at $3 or less a pair are gone. Luckily I found a couple more so that, hopefully, something will come up on the market in the next couple years. For now, I'm trying the Bulbrite LED8ST18/30K/FIL/2/JA8 (774139). Not a brand that I personally trust (same category as Feit, at least in my mind) and only 800 lm, but they don't suck.

Full spectrum, high-fidelity (up to cinematic/photographic levels) LEDs, modules, and strips at https://store.yujiintl.com/ -- they have a US presence, who was able to put up a 3000 K variant that wasn't on their direct-sales site when I called. Some of their offerings are in the 2000 lm/m range, and some up to 700 LEDs/m, so close to a line source. Apparently they'll custom blend phosphors for you if you're that high-end in your needs.

 

Let me know what you think on those new 3000k lights. If I could replace my par20 and GU10 with real high quality LED alternatives I would do so. Unfortunately every time I have tried to do so, the LED light appears to bleach reds out of the kitchen, which is very apparent on the wood cabinets. The HIRs certainly cannot match LED in efficiency but the light quality is unmatched against the LEDs I've tried and at a reasonable energy savings over standard halogen. But the HIRs are only in the kitchen, which is not a room that is constantly illuminated, unlike a more common area.

As for A19s, I am not aware of any '72w' LED bulbs that are omni-directional. They seem to all be the older style bulb with an opaque base, meaning if the bulb is facing upward in your over-table figure you have minimal direct down light from the fixture and are relying on reflected light off the ceiling. Sometimes it may be better to swap the fixture to fit a bulb of existing tech more suited for the purpose rather than try and find a bulb that it inherently flawed for the purpose. But if you can get by with an 800 lumen bulb there are several viable omni-directional HD options now available on the market.

 

Lost a PAR20 Philips Ecovantage HIR flood in the kitchen hood. Going to give the Green Creative Par20 LEDs suggested above a try. They are rated for enclosed spaces, wet conditions and spec'd at 95 CRI, 3000k and 580 lumens in 40 degree flood, which checks all the boxes. They'll actually be a little brighter than the Ecovantage HIR bulbs at 500 lumens. The hood is a commercial style stainless hood, I don't think the white plastic bulb body would be noticeable, but the bulbs are also available in black for the same price, so I went with black bodies:

https://www.homelectrical.com/65w-l...d-e26-dim-580-lm-3000k-black.gcr-34897.1.html

 

Tested out the Green Creative 95 CRI Par20s LEDs. I opted for 40 degree flood. The light quality is amazing, but not certain what I think yet.

GreenCreative LED left vs Philips HIR right


The LED is noticeably whiter in color than the EcoVantage HIRs. But after checking they are right on the 3000k spec, the HIRs are a little warmer than 3000k.

These measurements are at end of life on the HIR, they lost a surprising 30% of their output intensity vs first install when I recorded their lux values at 2303 lux.



The LEDs are a reasonable bump in intensity at 2553 vs new Philips at 2303, without being too bright. The CRI values on the Grean Creative LED are outstanding.

Halogens dim over time, but I was not expecting a 30% loss. Being that I replaced all the kitchen lights at the same time with EcoVantage HIRs, that likely means all my kitchen output has has dropped 30%!

Good amount of R9 on the LED


Spectrum


I thought these standard deviation of color matching charts were interesting.




The Green Creative LEDs are beyond 5 SDCM, meaning it is ‘readily noticeable’ they are not color matched to 3000k.

While the LEDs look whiter compared to the HIRs, on their own they don’t stand out as an LED light, though they are slightly higher in color temp than their spec. I’d prefer if it was slightly lower. They are available in 2700k, but I’d ideally not like to go that warm in the kitchen. I’ll have to look into what GU10 MR16 LEDs are comparable to the Green Creative lights for more uniform kitchen lighting color, and so I don’t loose output so drastically over time.

 

@crashnburn80 any interest in looking at a lighting diagram that I drew up for a customer? They want more light in their home, you seem to know what your looking at

 

Not sure what help I will be able to provide, but you are welcome to send it my way!

 

Glad you like the Green Creative PAR’s! I’d love for you to try out the same in SORAA. They have become my go-to light in most cases. I don’t have any hard evidence but they edge out Green Creative just a tiny bit
. In many applications not worth the price increase but great for interiors!

 

Im still on the fence on the Green Creative lights, the color rendering performance is outstanding but they are just a touch higher in color temp than I would like.

I am eying SORAAs for my GU10 MR16 replacements, I’ve got 10 of those in the kitchen so I’ll take a bit more of an experimental approach and try a few different ones as they are pricey! Feit came out with 90 CRI GU10 MR16s which are $18 for a 3 pack, which is appealing compared to the price of the SORAAs. However if the SORAAs look better I am willing to pay more for quality lights.

I may consider trying them in a Par20 for the hood. Ideally I want all the lights to match color temp in the kitchen and as the SDCM graph shows the Green Creative are just high enough in color temp the human eye can tell they are above 3000k.

 

The SORAA GU10 bulb are great, but they are expensive (~$26 per bulb) and no longer can be shipped to California (along with most "legacy" bulbs at this point). My non-scientific, eyeball measurements are that they seem just a hair more halogen-like in their color rendering than do the Green Creative bulbs (~$15). For me, it's not enough of a difference to justify the price differential. Cooking with them in the range now for a few weeks, I don't find the Green Creative bulbs "objectionable" in any way and the quality of light is more than sufficient. Interesting to hear that my impression of a tiny bit higher color temperature than old-school halogens.

The SORAA bulbs run hot. I considered them for the range-hood application but was concerned by the grease and the need to use a E26-to-GU10 adapter. Grease behind, grease on the recessed lens, grease getting through the heat-sink holes on the face, ...

The Green Creative bulbs seem not to be hot to the touch, and have a reasonably smooth face that could be wiped clean.

I've long had a bias against Feit, Satco, and a couple others, considering them a "cheap" brands in terms of quality and cost both. I don't know which Feit you're looking at, but https://www.energystar.gov/productfinder/product/certified-light-bulbs/details/2304669 shows an R9 of 60 for the "MR16/GU10/930CA". At least for me, that's far from what I'm looking for.

 

Good find on the Feit specs! Agreed they are not up to par with the top notch brands and those R9 values are clearly lacking, as is typical for an inexpensive LED. Saves me some money on testing their output. Comparing the Green Creative (GC) vs SORAA GU10s, I don't see the Green Creative bulbs in a 95 CRI rating. The GC GU10s appear to max out in the 90 CRI class.

Good call on the heat sink design for the SORRAs in a range hood. Agreed that design is sub-par for the range hood application subject to grease.

Another pro for the GU10 SORAA bulbs, I have once corner in the kitchen above the sink that really should have had an additional ceiling canister light installed, as the amount of light is a little dimmer than ideal for the area. SORAA offers several options of power levels so I can install a wider output higher lumen bulb to hopefully cover the area with more light of the same color temp without having to add additional ceiling canisters. At least in theory it sounds like it would work and improve the overhead lighting in that corner.

 

Hey @crashnburn80

Just swapped out the recessed lights with these based on my buddy who is an electrician.

Set them 2700k and they are amazing, both 6” and 4” in 2 different rooms.

 

At first I was skeptical of the CRI rating on a color changing light. When I looked at products like Philips Hue in the past, the CRI rating was a low 80 CRI. I liked the idea to color shift the light temperature with the time of day but don’t want to compromise on a low quality light. Based on the specs I found for those (I think they are the same, but the box is orange online), they are rated at 90 CRI, which is among the best I’ve seen in a residential color changing light. Good find! Can you set the color temp on a schedule? Or is it all manual?

 

Unfortunately it’s manual, there is a switch on the back of the light housing that slide to witch color that you want.
The hallway, kitchen and family room are all set to 2700. It’s a nice warm hue that is easy on the eyes.
The wife is very sensitive to the blue light so she tells me immediately if it’s the wrong color.