*Hopefully* constructive discussion about the 3rd gen and it's issues

couldn't have said it any better

 

kenetic I agree, I think it's the best looking truck out now regardless of size. F150 proportions come close, but I love everything about the Tacoma minus all the chrome of the grille.

 

I have just gotten used to driving the truck at higher rpm's. mine usually sits around 1500 at 65 and then jumps up to 2100 at 75. I honestly didn't notice a big difference after the two transmission TSB,s. I can understand the feeling of the truck being a little gutless after driving other vehicles. Overall though people were really hard on the redesign. As far as I am concerned the third gen is a step up from the second in several ways. It's handling is more civil with far less body roll. It's quieter and more comfortable, and it gets better gas mileage if you keep the truck stock. It also still remains arguably one of the best stock off-road vehicles you can buy. It's such a tough and capable truck off-road. I would like to know more about the 3.5. I have a 2009 highlander with 260,000 miles and no issues at all which uses a 3.5. I'm sure the Tacoma engine shares it's DNA. I won't be surprised if the 3rd gen engines turn out to be able to easily go over 300,000k.

 

I'll say that I'm not worried as much about the engine as I am the trans and components that interact with it

 

And they very well may last 300K BUT how long can an engine last that stays revved the way these engines do? Mine won't putter around town without the transmission bucking like a bronco so I have to either use ECT or downshift to S3 to keep the rpms up enough to keep it (and me) happy. There HAS to be additional wear and tear on engine and trans when it stays in the power band like that.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I spent too much time driving big V8 gas guzzling torque monsters but I don't remember either of my 22RE trucks driving this way. Just how long will an engine last that spends the majority of its time above 3K rpms?

 

Unless I'm going above 80 the engine usually reves belo 3000 rpm which isn't actually that high. I feel like Toyota designed our trucks with longevity vs power in mind. It may be a little gutless but I would be surprised if it didn't last longer that a Colorado.

 

On the highway at speeds 60 and above, my rpms are low. Actually, very low for the given speeds. It's the slow, in-town, driving that is so difficult. Towing is the other difficulty. Even with my smallest trailer (5x8 cheapo from Tractor Supply), the truck struggles mightily unless I keep the rpms high. Again, it may be just me. 3,000 rpms do seem really high to me when I have to keep the truck there for hours on end to tow something. Am I wrong about that? Are the engine and drive train designed to handle those rpms for extended periods?

 

I believe routine engine maintenance may very well keep it running past 2-250,000. What number trans I'll be on by then is the question.

What's the life expectancy of your average truck trans that's not driven like I stole it?

 

I would hope so. I have a manual transmission and spend all my time between 2300-3000 RPM for cruise. If I need to make a good pull I will downshift to get up around 3700-4000 RPM.

The truck just doesn't respond well at all in my experience at ~2300 RPM and below.

Extremely low power/torque, odd surging/bucking, etc.

 

If you are driving fast then you're not driving in that mph range this truck sucks at. I'm talking real city driving with averages around 18 mph.

This is not how a truck should drive in 2017, hell it's not how a truck should have driven in 2000. There are plenty of 6+ speed vehicles out there that drive just fine and shift smoothly. This truck reminds me of driving my dads old F250 diesel back in the 90's, before the Super Duty. Step on the gas, get a bunch of loud engine noise and watch it go nowhere. It feels like I'm towing a 2,000 lb trailer behind me every day in the Taco.

And I would have sold it if there was anything near affordable to justify the depreciation loss. Don't really won't a full size and they are even more ridiculous with the pricing than this Taco. If they don't screw up the next 4Runner I'd be interested in that, right now they are just too dated.

 

Someone here posted up some Toyota Documents that had anything and everything for the Tacoma 3.5, Life Cycle was listed at 160,000 Miles.

 

You have a manual trans and have "odd surging/bucking". So, it's NOT just the auto trans that does this? That may change the next conversation I have with my service manager.

 

That can be a little misleading though. For example, in certain cases, some aircraft parts "life" is say 80k flight cycles, but we need to show them good for 400k and usually there is a positive margin even beyond that.

I don't know how it is done in the auto industry but I would assume something similar is done in terms of "mileage" on major parts.

 

What's funny is the depreciation loss is built back into it when they put it out on the lot. That $10,000 you lost in a few months is suddenly gone when the dealer puts it out for sale and it's within $1,000 for a new one. Where'd all that depreciation go???

 

Lower RPM it is the worst regardless of gear. And I'm not talking about lugging the engine or anything, it is below ~2300 RPM things are not smooth at all unless you are REALLY sensitive on the gas pedal and even then it still bucks slightly.

Also somewhere in that lower RPM range the throttle delivery feels like a sine wave going "womp womp womp" and surging back and forth slightly before power delivery becomes more linear as RPM's go higher.

It also will do one quick buck if you are at highway speed and fully release your foot off the gas and press the gas again in even 5th or 6th.

And engine braking in the truck is odd as hell. It gives you a ton of engine braking down to about 1500 RPM and then suddenly the truck bucks and you no longer have any engine braking (so essentially your acceleration changes). And this happens with your foot on or off the brake completely.

Like I said, I do my best to avoid lower RPM's all together, but I can't avoid lower RPM's in 2nd which is where I end up with my biggest complaints (slower traffic). Interestingly enough, although I haven't spent tons of time in it, 4wd does not seem to have the lower RPM issues at all.

 

I fully understand the Aviation Industry. I assume the Toyota Documents were saying their minimum spec is 160K

 

Interesting - I have ~6100mi on my 17 TRD Sport DCSB and have not encountered any of this.I RARELY go over 3500rpm/4000rpm outside of 1st and 2nd unless passing. I assume this is not your first Manual?

 

dealer's (stealership) pocket.

 

Well I just had to comment. I hated my 16TRD 4/4 a few weeks after I bought it. Payed big $$$ and felt cheated but I have learned to live with it. I have 15k miles and have driven it hard in the Colorado mountains and towed quite a bit( 3500 lbs) quite a few times. Yes you have to keep ur pedal in it and down low it's gutless. But it's running better with time and save ur self the aggravation. Keep it in 5th gear(auto) and she will shift less and fuel economy still is good. Hope she lasts as long as the older Tacos or I will change brands. Damn good looking though!

 

I think everybody pretty much agrees that at low RPMs, these trucks are "gutless".

Is that just a computer programming issue, or some overall design issue? Is it the trans? engine? both? I know the engine puts out peak HP and Torque numbers at REALLY high RPMs. I swear, if I really push my truck, once it hits about 4K rpm I feel a real "kick" and it's almost like a nitrous shot or something. Really strange.

As I have said in other threads, I can sorta live with some of the quirks if I know it's going to last a long time but some days I wonder.