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[HOW-TO] - 1st Gen Tacoma Rear Shock Relocate

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by Speedytech7, Mar 23, 2018.

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Was this writeup useful to you in any way? Trying to gauge whether I should keep making them

  1. Hell Yeah!

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  2. Yeah

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  4. Hell Nah!

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  1. Apr 12, 2018 at 7:57 AM
    #21
    ZrowGz

    ZrowGz I'm a n00b.

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    Dang, this is a great write up and excellent photos! Nicely done with the artsy ones too haha

    I'm planning in relocating my shocks soon when I plate and box the frame. I'm also planning on building a detachable swing out rack for the rear bumper and have heard that the extra weight can make the rear kinda squirrelly. Did you note and improvement in rear end stability with these shock locations? Did you research what what kinda angles would provide what in terms of improvements or compromises? I'd be really interested in seeing that too!
     
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  2. Apr 18, 2018 at 11:43 AM
    #22
    charliegt35r

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    @Speedytech7 you have the new kings in yet, want to see pictures of them
     
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  3. Apr 18, 2018 at 1:43 PM
    #23
    quetzal

    quetzal Well-Known Member

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    +1
     
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  4. Apr 23, 2018 at 12:31 PM
    #24
    Speedytech7

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    I've done a mod or two
    Kings will be going in this weekend, got sidetracked with installing my supercharger. But I'm excited to get these things in.

    @ZrowGz I'll let you know how they perform very soon here. As for the angles themselves, I was shooting for as close to 1:1 lever ratio as I could achieve as that essentially lets you achieve the most from your damping through the entire stroke (at least with leafs and a light truck) The valving gets a fair bit more complicated with more aggressive lever ratios and we aren't pulling enough travel from stock location leafs to warrant the extra work.
     
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  5. Apr 24, 2018 at 10:33 AM
    #25
    Digiratus

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    What is a more agressive lever ratio? Is it when shocks are angled back (or forward) or when they are angled inward at the top or a combination of both?
     
  6. Apr 24, 2018 at 11:06 AM
    #26
    Speedytech7

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    I would say whever the lever ratio is greater than 1:1 it requires more aggressive valving. There is less shaft speed so the damping force has to be greater because with less speed comes greater force due to that extra leverage from the angle.
     
  7. Apr 24, 2018 at 11:09 AM
    #27
    ZrowGz

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    I think it's the angle off vertical, right? I feel like I saw a table in one of the threads that demonstrated that it should be less than 15 degrees off vertical. Then you've also got to take into account the C motion that the leafs will cause the axle to make as they flex through their range. I think this is why having the tops mounted forward of the axle works best, so the motion of the leaf keeps it as close to in line with the shock as possible throughout it's range of motion. Please correct me where I'm wrong. I'm still trying to figure this stuff out!
     
  8. Apr 24, 2018 at 11:21 AM
    #28
    Digiratus

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    I wonder if the default valving on aftermarket "OEM type" shocks is more aggressive than say their non-oem type shocks sold for non-stock mounting locations.

    Considering the stock mountings are fairly angled, I would think the lever ratio needs to be more aggressive to compensate.
     
  9. Apr 24, 2018 at 11:31 AM
    #29
    Speedytech7

    Speedytech7 [OP] Toyota Cult Ombudsman

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    Maybe, maybe not, stock shocks don't really have a performance goal in mind so much as keep the truck from walking over a whole lane when going over train tracks. Untuned or poorly tuned shocks can accomplish a lot of that. It's when you have performance and comfort in mind that you need more thought in the valving and angles.
     
  10. Apr 24, 2018 at 11:52 AM
    #30
    Digiratus

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    I was thinking more of fox or king shocks sold as OEM replacements. I would think that the consumer would expect there is a performance goal in mind when these shock are designed. But who knows, you could be right. They may be totally generic, and on par with Ranchos or Billies. A one size fits all perspective. That's why it's kind of disappointing to hear shock resellers (DSM & ADS) tell their customers to tryout the default valving on their setup before making any changes. I know you didn't allow that to happen when you bought your kings, but then, they aren't OEM type replacements either.
     
  11. Apr 24, 2018 at 12:48 PM
    #31
    Speedytech7

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    Oh okay, I see what you mean. I know all the Tenneco brands like Rough Country, Tuff Country, Skyjackoff, use generic weight based valving (light truck = lighter valving). They do their job and aren't really supposed to hold up under tough conditions or anything. FOX and Icon are the only remaining performance rears for the stock Tacoma positions and I'd imagine their valving is probably much more reflective of their position and general weight expected. The cool part with those is you can always make them better because I guarantee most of us carry more weight than they're expecting.

    I too am a little saddened that ADS nor DSM are asking as many questions as they should. Filthy Motorsports was super cool and asked for pictures, items generally carried, mounting spacing. Also the ones that @ZrowGz ordered aren't for the factory positions so I really wonder how they will come valved without him having any mounts to send info about or any weight rating yet either.
     
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  12. Apr 24, 2018 at 3:50 PM
    #32
    quetzal

    quetzal Well-Known Member

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    @Speedytech7 Question re your welder. What voltage did you use when you welded. I hear you should use 240v for 1/4" steel? Thanks.
     
  13. Apr 24, 2018 at 4:06 PM
    #33
    Speedytech7

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    My welder is a 140amp Lincoln MIG welder. It runs off of 120V. If you were doing structural welding for a building or a ship where you were welding 1/4" to 1/4" or thicker with a backing strap then yes you would want a larger MIG unit, something closer to 250AMP. In this case we are joining 1/4" to thinner materials. The axle is a good bit under 3/16 thickness and the upper mount bar is .120wall or roughly 11gauge. So we really could only ever hope to weld as strong as the thinnest material we are joining together which I can guarantee I'm doing. I had mine cranked to full amperage output and matched my wire speed well. I favored the arc on the 1/4" side to make sure the weld penetrated well and didn't go through the smaller material. The welds came out great and this isn't a blind joint which is nice, gives you the opportunity to do the same to the inside of the mount as well, so both sides of the 1/4" material are getting welded to the axle/bar.
     
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  14. Apr 24, 2018 at 7:29 PM
    #34
    quetzal

    quetzal Well-Known Member

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    Really appreciate your informative reply!
     
  15. Apr 24, 2018 at 11:25 PM
    #35
    ZrowGz

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    Dang I need to learn to weld...

    As for the shocks, I’m still trying to figure out exactly what I’m going to do. I’m liking the thought of the hoop in the wheel well with either Deaver or Alcan Springs. I did give all the weights and pictures. It’s just that I was hoping to get all this stuff mounted to my new frame before I powder coat it. It’s looking like it would be dumb to do that now though as I continue to research the reality of this. I’m thinking the 10” ones will still work, but I’m thinking designing a setup and getting the actual geometry right isn’t something I should try and figure out. I should just get a visit so somewhere like MCM or filthy motorsports and have them help me figure out how to do it once I’ve done the frame swap. Since my frame has some currently distorted geometry with the bend anyway... I mistakenly thought I’d just pick a size that similar to stock and that these folks would be able to tell me what I needed based on my setup. There’s just too many variables. And if trying going for a legit setup, why screw it up with something so easily done right as geometry once you know what you’re going for. I have much to learn... ooof. Reading all your guys stuff is super helpful.
     
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  16. May 31, 2018 at 9:54 PM
    #36
    Speedytech7

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  17. May 31, 2018 at 9:59 PM
    #37
    charliegt35r

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  18. May 31, 2018 at 10:01 PM
    #38
    Speedytech7

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    :D
     
  19. Jun 11, 2018 at 10:22 PM
    #39
    Reh5108

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    Quoted from my build..

     
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  20. Jun 27, 2018 at 11:39 AM
    #40
    charliegt35r

    charliegt35r MALL CRAWLERs

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    Instead of making another thread, I'll add on to @Speedytech7 on more pictures of mine
    20180626_200926.jpg frame reinforced
    20180625_181606.jpg factory frame reinforce cut off
    DSC01749.jpg ruffstuff side axle mount
    DSC01751.jpg

    DSC01762.jpg
    DSC01759.jpgall done

    DSC01758.jpg low range upper mount
    This is the closest we can get the BAMF 1st gen kit he used to sell
     

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