^^ How To: AEM F/IC-6 Install, Tuning, and Help Thread

That's why I'm checking out meth setups. They seemed unnecessary at first. Now that I know I want to run my truck in the desert in the heat, it seems like a way to go on top of the 7th injector setup.

 

I would do a S/C again. I just want to rid myself of the pings. But I only want to do this once, so I am here to decide which option to go with.

 

Hmm that's interesting that you can actually see your timing with the retard included. The way gadgets always explained it in his tuning guides is onceyou dial in retard, you need to subtract that amount from what your scan tool is telling you. I believe this I because the ecu doesn't actually know you are retarding the timing because you are actually skewing the crank and cam signals.

 

All I know is that the scangauge reads the actual timing values either positive or negative for retard or advanced (25 or -25). I can prove this is true at idle by subtracting timing until the scangauge goes negative, meaning the timing is now dialed waaaaaaay back. Of course retard and advance is subjective. Say my timing at idle is 25 degrees advanced and I retard 10 using the AEM, the scangauge will now read 15 degrees advanced. The timing in this situation is now 10 degrees retarded from 25 degrees and if the gauge displayed something like -25 degrees (retarded) that would be 50 degrees retarded from 25 degrees advanced. Hopefully this makes sense.

In short: the scangauge reads actual timing values from the ECU, you can prove this by subtracting timing at idle and watching the degree value on the gauge go down.

(I'm not sure what the ECU's max limit on timing values is but I'd guess it's somewhere around +(-)35 degrees, as the largest advanced value I've seen is +34 degrees)

 

Something is still not right here. Like @kigmob mentioned the ecu has no idea what you are doing. The ecu has 30 degrees of retard it can adjust with to avoid detonation and it will advance timing as far as it can until it senses pinging then it will pull timing back. If you pull timing with the FIC you will gain timing on the ecu. Do you have an obd2 scanner to cross reference the numbers you are seeing? Maybe I'm wrong and the scanner you're using is just super meta. Although it still wouldn't explain why you aren't at least getting timing back when you pull from the fic to the maximum advance allowance.

And when someone says "I'm pulling 8 degrees at max boost", why would you assume that means anything other than WOT? Do you want to compare partial throttle hp numbers too?

I would definitely consider another SC in the future depending on what kind of build I was working on. I would prefer a SC over a turbo for an off road rig mainly for the instant response. The power you get from a turbo is straight up mind blowing compared to the sc, that's the bottom line but if you're talking practicality the sc is definitely a competitor. Honestly if I had the cash I'd try to fit a centrifugal charger on it and run low comp pistons. Best of both worlds the only sacrifice I can think of would be cruising mpgs due to the low compression.

 

You are right. It only subtracts timing. When you retard timing, you are decreasing timing advance. If the FIC can only retard timing then that means whatever value you add in the software is decreasing your advance. This is the same for my URD unit. When I put a 3 in the 3psi boost 3000 rpm cell, that means what ever my timing advance is in the region is actually 3 degrees less. If my scan tool say my timing adavace is 20 degrees in this region, then my timing is actually 17 degrees advanced. That's how I've always understood it.

 

Bottom line, you need something to be able to tune closed loop boost. It doesn't get any cheaper than the AEM F/IC. You could leave your stock injectors in, if your AFRs are happy at WOT. You will be gaining the ability to richen up closed loop boost situations.

Personally I start richening up at -1 in/hg (or -2psi) down to 13.5, at 0 it's at 13.0, and by 2psi it's down to 12.5, scaling all the way to 11.8ish at 9psi. I tow a LOT and i'm at 0 vacuum a lot wanted to keep EGTs happy at the cost of burning quite a bit of extra fuel (93 octane free currently $2.899/gal)

 

That is correct but when you cut timing on the piggy back the ecu will add it back. So your ecu would actually read 3 degrees advanced if you pulled 3 degrees. You're not actually changing the timing because the timing is always being advanced as far is it can be by the ecu until detonation occurs. What you're doing when you pull timing is moving the brackets for what the ecu can adjust for.

For example, if your ecu is cutting 30 degrees at WOT so it's reading "0 degrees advanced" you will be boned when it needs to cut more because it maxes out at 30. You use the piggy back to cut say 15 degrees at this point so now the ecu reads "15 degrees advanced" even though 30 degrees total is being cut, 15 by the ecu and 15 by the piggy back. The reason to do this is to avoid "bottoming out" the adjustability of the ecu, you're not actually cutting timing.

 

Interesting. So we are actually just opening up the window the ecu has to retard timing? Kind of goes along with what gadget says in his tuning guide. The only thing that confuses me is when he says this, which I like what I was saying in my post.

"When the ECU gets the timing back to the knock threshold, you need to interpret what the scan tool is telling you. If the scan tool is telling you that the ECU timing is 20 degrees advanced, and you have 6 degrees of retard dialed in, your true timing is 14 degrees. As long as you understand this tuning will be much easier for you"

 

What part confuses you? This is consistent with what I've been saying. If you cut 6 degrees on the piggy back you will gain 6 on the ecu but you aren't actually changing the timing. So the ecu now reads +6 from the true reading.

 

I think I get it now. You confused me when you said if I pull 3 degrees my ecu would read 3 degrees advanced (I was thinking as in my scangauge would show 3 degrees). But what were saying is if I pull 3 degrees, the ecu adds it back but my true timing would be whatever my SG says minus 3. And by the ecu adding back the timing, it regains some of the window it has to retard the timing. Does this sound Correct??

 

Well I have a more advanced scanner so I can cross reference them and see what values they give. I just don't understand why the ECU wouldn't know what you are doing...

And I think there's a dude on youtube with a twin charged 4runner with a SC fed by a turbo and a hood exit exhaust, I think theres a vid of it on the BS forum

 

For the most part that is correct. I'm not familiar with scangage, is it an obd reader or do you hard wire it into the harness? The reading you would get from an obd scanner (or the ecu) will read the true timing plus the amount of time you have pulled with the piggy back. Another way to think about it is that both computers are working in tandem. So you are pulling timing with the piggy back and it is being added back by the ecu for a net timing adjustment of zero. You are correct about regaining the "window." You're basically shifting the minimim timing advance the stock ecu can incorporate to a lower value.

 

Ok I think I understand your point now. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways.

Dont worry im kinda slow

 

Gotcha. Yea the scangauge just plugs into the obd port.

Now another question I have is how the ecu knows that it can retard the timing more (by opening up the window with the piggyback) without knowing the engine is boosted? I would think it would still want to run just as advanced as before. I guess as it senses knock, the knock sensors will now be able to retard the timing further to remove the knock? This question is more related to lower rpms. How does this work below 3000rpm when the knock sensors are not in use and it pings? This is the issue for most of us SC guys since we can boost at low rpms. I know based on my tuning experience that the piggyback can still get rid of the knock in these areas as well, which doesn't make senses based on what we just discussed on how the system works.

Does this question make sense or am I still not getting it? lol. Glad we're having this discussion. It's hard to find good info related to this and I think there are a lot of people that really don't understand how it works.

 

Also, don't mean to clutter this thread, but I believe it all fits as it is related to tuning and can help others when tuning the timing with the FIC.

 

I can make 7lb boost at like 2400 when towing easily. That's why I start richening up the closed loop mixture isignificantly when I start getting near 0 vacuum.

 

Are you sure it's not at 2000 when the knock sensor is active? The reason you can retard timing further is simply because you've added some back into the ecu by retarding with the piggy back. Remember that they both work together and the stock ecu can only retard 30 degrees so if you are pulling 10 with the piggy back you can now pull 40 degrees total.

Let me try explaining a different way. First of all the way the timing works on these engines is the ecu will advance timing constantly until it senses detonation then it will retard until it stops then preceded to advance again, repeat. Say you are in a load condition where the ecu pulls 25 degrees of timing, which also means 5 degrees advanced since 30 is the max. The point at which detonation occurs is constant, it doesn't change. Now you pull 10 degrees with the piggy back. The ecu will now be able to advance its timing 10 more degree from 5 before it hits the detonation point which is still at the same place. It is now at 15 degrees advanced, or 15 retard.

 

This is what I think, just my opinion, maybe someone else has an idea,

This is very strange That your having ping issues at 5500 feet, You should not be having any ping issues before boost, so before you go to far by adding a split second or AEM or other ECU management system option

I would look at your fuel delivery numbers to the injectors.
I think Something is wrong with your engine not getting enough fuel.
I don't think this is related to the methanol kit or the supercharger because you are getting
pinging before the supercharger and methonal kit are working and once the boost and methonal comes on the pinging goes away

Look at your fuel pump performance numbers,
1)pressure,
2) your lines kinked,
3) your fuel regulator,
4) your fuel filters plugged, inline under cab, filter in tank.
5) bad fuel pump
6) injector not working correctly, maybe do a flow rate test?
7) knock sensors

I think your problem is in one of the those listed above and NOT a ECU issue.


I have a 2" pulley that I run premium gas with 9.25 pounds of boost at 5500 feet.
Running 50/50 methanol and running from 5000 feet to 11,000 feet at
Eisenhower Tunnel with zero pinging,
Progressive spray point starts at 4.5 boost up, zero pinging under 4.5 boost, ZERO PINGING ANYWHERE and using a gallon of 50/50 methanol per 1500 miles depending on my driving foot.
If your going down below 5000 feet To sea level you might have pinging there depending on pulley size and you might have to change to a large methanol nozzle
And earlier start spray points for more fuel to address the ping.

My methanol system works like a dream for me at altitude of 5500 plus feet up to 12,000 feet.

 

Can I assume that there is a Schrader valve somewhere to get a pressure reading on the regulator?
I installed the larger injectors as you suggested.
No kinked lines that I have seen.
I have a new fuel filter that I can install.
I ordered an

$103 AEM 50-1000 High Flow In-Tank Fuel Pump, Black, 4.055 x 1.535 x 1.535"es

AEM 50-1000 pump.
And I have not looked inside the fuel tank.

Air fuel ratio at idle bounces around 14.7 +/-5 and stays about the same at highway cruising speeds.
If I push the accelerator pedal to the floor it will go to 11.0 to 12.0 at full boost (7 pounds).
I have noticed lately that the idle reading has dropped to 15 or less for just a second and then back to 14.7. This is not always the case though.

Thank you for your help.