Hydrogen Boost Kit!

Clifford1001 · Nov 22, 2011

Hey yall,

Just purchased an 06' Tacoma SR5 4.0L V6 ... looking for ways to make the truck a bit more fuel efficient! A friend of mine had previously owned a Tacoma and he mentioned something about a hydrogen induction machine that he installed on his truck to improve MPG's!

I plan on installing this Hydrogen Boost Kit in the Spring of 2012 just wanted to hear any feedback fellow Toyota Truck owners had with similiar systems!

Cheers,

Dan
Westchester County - New York

dayNnite4 · Nov 22, 2011

have NOT heard very good things

Clifford1001 · Nov 23, 2011

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/

Through a quick google search I found this company online and was able to contact a representative from the company!

Im still in the research stages of this project and have not made a full on commitment to installing this yet!

Is anyone here familiar with this company's product?

JEP · Nov 23, 2011

Fodder4U · Nov 23, 2011

Snake oil. Ex-Jeeper here and there have been tons of attempts to do the same on them with no real success.

Jester243 · Nov 23, 2011

afd23a · Nov 23, 2011

I don't think anyone (or very many) on here uses the hydrogen systems. There have been a few threads started on this subject only to end up in the debate over whether they actually work or not. Most folks on here are of the mindset that realistically they do not provide any benefits, however I don't know how many have tried them.

Welcome to TW

David K · Nov 23, 2011

If things like that worked, the car companies would have them on their vehicles... They are doing everything possible to increase fuel mileage.

tntacoma · Nov 29, 2011

David K said: ↑

If things like that worked, the car companies would have them on their vehicles... They are doing everything possible to increase fuel mileage.
Click to expand...

I disagree with the above quote. It is my opinion the car companys are only doing the bare minimums to meet new fuel efficiency mandates. The (car manufacturers) are in with big oil. Look at european countries, their gas mileage on their cars kicks our ass. Diesels are far more fuel efficient than gas engines and we still as a nation very reluctanlty are slowly putting them in passenger cars. The big F350 type diesels have so much uneeded government required smog stuff it kills the gas mileage. This country is and will be for a very long time, very dependant on fossil fuels. 65% of all things you come in contact with on a daily bases is made with fossil fuels.

MonkeyProof · Nov 29, 2011

:subscribed:

ATriplett513 · Nov 29, 2011

4x4jeep · Nov 29, 2011

MowTaco · Nov 29, 2011

I just did some googling. Prepare thyself for an essay:

'Run Your Car On Water' Scheme Could Leave Consumers All Wet
Scientists debunk 'scammish' gas-from-water claims

By David Wood
ConsumerAffairs.com

July 17, 2008

What if you could install a small device under your car hood and improve your fuel economy by 50 percent? With today's soaring gas prices, a device like that sounds pretty good. Almost too good, in fact.

These widely-advertised devices, known variously as a "hydrogen generator" or "hydrogen booster," claim to be able to use electricity from your car battery to split water into its components of oxygen and hydrogen. This supposedly forms what is called "Browns Gas."

Scientists say the idea is preposterous, with one saying the energy created would "not amount to a hill of beans."

Perhaps the most notorious Web site promoting the concept is Water4Gas.com. Created by a gentleman who calls himself Ozzie Freedom, the site is a 12,000-word sales pitch for two electronic books advertised at $97.00.

The books supposedly explain how you can build your own system that will "…take EXCESS energy out of the car's battery or alternator (in other words very low current that the engine does not feel) and use this electricity to generate a very small amount of Hydrogen per minute. What that Hydrogen does is help split the gasoline/air mixture droplets into a finer mist - thus helping it burn more efficiently and more completely."

What kind of mileage improvements? Well, the Water4Gas site claims that you'll be able to double your gas mileage. However, one claim says that the system "has boosted MPG by as much as 185% on a Chevy 4WD truck…"

Mason jar
Those are pretty big claims for a device made out of a Mason jar and baking soda, so we contacted Water4Gas by both phone and e-mail, sending a list of questions to Mr. Freedom. Our inquiries went unanswered.

Doing a Web search for "water4gas" or "Ozzie Freedom" brings up page after page of search results and advertisements with headlines such as, "Is Water4Gas a Scam?" or "Water4Gas Reviewed," not to mention a wealth of videos that claim to show the device in action.

It doesn't take long to realize that the "articles" and "reviews" appear to be sales pitches masquerading as unbiased reviews. Some sites present themselves as mechanics giving free advice to motorists.

Presenting a possible clue as to where all these sites come from, a site called waterfuelx.com instructs sales affiliates on how to increase sales, recommending that the affiliate create a "review page" and list the waterfuelx product as the number one choice because "reviewing the product will mean monster [sales] conversions."

No experts
All of these hydrogen booster sites have one thing in common: Even though they claim the "hydrogen-booster process" has been around a hundred years, they don't include any scientific studies or expert testimony to support their claim that the process improves gas mileage.

In fact, the Water4Gas site specifically says that you shouldn't listen to "experts." Instead, Mr. Freedom says that you should just order his books.

And just who is the mysterious Mr. Freedom?

According to the bio on his Web site, he was formerly known as Eyal Siman-Tov, and Water4Gas is not his first online venture.

In 2006, he ran a Web site called Magnet4cash.com. It promised that you could "finance your wildest dreams WITHOUT loans," with the goal "to educate you on little-known methods to make fast cash legally…"

Mr. Freedom also invented the "Spongebee," which he describes as "the new all-American flying craze." Further, he is the founder of something called Sane Computers. That Web site has the headline, "New Mind-Blowing Invention Puts An End To... Your Computer Frustrations!"

Additionally, Freedom's portfolio lists many awards, including the "Sponsor For Total Freedom" by the International Association of Scientologists.

Scientists dismissive
Freedom's advice to ignore the experts notwithstanding, we checked in with a few.

"All of these device/schemes seem to promote adding hydrogen to improve the combustion process. There is no way it can improve fuel economy by 50%, or even 5%," said Dr. Robert Sawyer, Professor of Energy Emeritus at the University of California, Berkeley .

Dr. Sawyer said that he has been reviewing gas-saving devices since he first joined the faculty at UC-Berkeley, more than 40 years ago, and to see a change in MPG comes as no surprise.

"One would expect to see a small increase or decrease (a few percent) in fuel economy from all of these devices, purely the result of test variability. However, people will put a device on their car and automatically change the way they drive. This in itself will improve fuel economy simply because a person is driving slower, etc.," Sawyer said.

All of the experts we spoke with had serious problems with the wording on the Web sites promoting the Water4Gas concept.

"The Web sites I saw used a little bit of truth mixed in with a lot of false statements," said Dr. John Kramlich, Professor of Mechanical Engineering at the University of Washington College of Engineering. "People need to forget about all the 'testimonials' they see because the only way to know if a device helps at all is to use a dynamometer. You not only need to test the MPG, but also what is happening to the combustion process of the engine, and the test has to be done numerous times."

When we showed the instructions and claims to Dr. Andrew A. Frank, he had difficulty holding back the laughter.

"It shows the desperation people feel!" said Frank, Professor of Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering at the University of California, Davis.

"This has been around for years, but it didn't work back then and it won't work now," Dr. Frank said. "It's such a very small amount of hydrogen-oxygen gas that it is impossible to have any real effect on combustion."

Frank went on to relay a story from his youth.

"Back in the 50's, water injection was a big thing because the P-51 Mustang aircraft used the process. The P-51 used a very high engine compression and on heavy loads, the engine would knock. The water injection did give the P-51 engine more power and it stopped the knocking."

"Curious people like me started to modify our own cars, and guess what? It did get rid of the knocking, but it also took a ton of water. It also messed up the timing because internal combustion engines aren't designed for these things. In short, all it did was create a negative force on the engine, even though the knocking stopped."

We asked Dr. Frank about all the positive "reviews" and "testimonials" that have flooded the Internet.

"A normal everyday driver can't accurately measure the MPG of their car. Each tank of gas might vary the MPG by as much as 20%, based on the time of day, road conditions, etc.," Frank stated.

"I saw one 'test' that showed a driver filling up the tank, driving 20 miles and then stopping to top off the tank. You can't measure anything this way because the air in the tank could easily be 100% off."

Dr. Frank also made note of what every other expert has said — a car battery can't create enough energy to have any measurable effect.

"These devices simply cannot generate enough hydrogen or oxygen to amount to a hill of beans. A 12-volt car battery might create some bubbles, but beyond that, a standard car battery isn't powerful enough to do anything," he said.

"Here's a good example that people should keep in mind," Frank said. "Even with the most expensive and sophisticated energy recovery systems, such as on some diesel trucks, you will only see about a 5% increase in fuel mileage."

In fact, some Canadian truckers use hydrogen boosters, but they shell out up to $15,000 for the technology. In addition, the Canadian government performed scientific testing on the device and found that it reduced fuel consumption by only 4%.

David Greene, energy expert and Corporate Fellow at Oak Ridge National Laboratory concurred. He said that yes, people can see an improvement, but "the potential for efficiency improvement by more rapid combustion is nowhere near the kinds of claims these Web sites make."

Side effects
Even if a person could tweak a device to get a few percent improvements in MPG, what kind of other problems might they be causing?

"You are also causing the engine to work harder, plain and simple," said Greene.

The experts also said to be wary of Web sites that use selective "studies" to promote their product. Many sites are referencing material from the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).

"I'm very active with that group and often times the SAE papers have a very narrow scope," said Dr. Thomas Asmus, retired Senior Research Executive with DaimlerChrysler Corporation and a current member of the Fuel Economy Panel for the National Academy of Science. "These hydrogen-on-demand Web sites are picking and choosing which SAE factoids to use, but if you added it all up, you would have nothing."

A recognized expert in fuel efficiency and engine combustion, Dr. Asmus said that these devices, "mix in a little hydrogen with fuel and can make a difference, but considering the amount of water used and that we're talking about a 12-volt battery, the maximum improvement (if any) would be no more than 2%."

And what about the claims of this being "suppressed" technology?

"This stuff has been around forever and it's been researched to death. It's a simple electrolyzer that could quite possibly cause more energy to be used than if you didn't use the device. It's as 'scammish' as anything I have ever seen," Asmus said.

Hydrogen Honda
In June, Honda made news with the introduction of its first hydrogen fuel cell car, an incredibly sophisticated, and incredibly expensive technology. Those who don't pay much attention to details may think the Honda project lends credence to the Water4Gas concept.

But the battery-powered cars are, in fact, powered by a hydrogen fuel that, while essentially made from water, is the product of a process much more complex and expensive than anything described on the gas-from-water sites.

In fact, getting water anywhere near gasoline is bad news for an engine. The slightest bit of water in your gas tank can cause huge problems.

The gas-from-water sites may be the newest kid on the block but they join a long list of supposed fuel-efficiency products that just don't make the grade, consumer protection officials warn.

"When gasoline prices rise, consumers often look for ways to improve fuel efficiency," the Federal Trade Commission said in a recent consumer alert. "Although there are practical steps you can take to increase gas mileage, you should be wary of any gas-saving claims for automotive devices or oil and gas additives. Even for the few gas-saving products that have been found to work, the savings have been small."
Click to expand...

Pugga · Nov 29, 2011

tntacoma said: ↑

I disagree with the above quote. It is my opinion the car companys are only doing the bare minimums to meet new fuel efficiency mandates. The (car manufacturers) are in with big oil. Look at european countries, their gas mileage on their cars kicks our ass. Diesels are far more fuel efficient than gas engines and we still as a nation very reluctanlty are slowly putting them in passenger cars. The big F350 type diesels have so much uneeded government required smog stuff it kills the gas mileage. This country is and will be for a very long time, very dependant on fossil fuels. 65% of all things you come in contact with on a daily bases is made with fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I don't believe car manufacturers do everything they can to make a car more efficient from the factory. That being said, I think those hydrogen systems are a joke...

nashi · Nov 29, 2011

tntacoma said: ↑

I disagree with the above quote. It is my opinion the car companys are only doing the bare minimums to meet new fuel efficiency mandates. The (car manufacturers) are in with big oil. Look at european countries, their gas mileage on their cars kicks our ass. Diesels are far more fuel efficient than gas engines and we still as a nation very reluctanlty are slowly putting them in passenger cars. The big F350 type diesels have so much uneeded government required smog stuff it kills the gas mileage. This country is and will be for a very long time, very dependant on fossil fuels. 65% of all things you come in contact with on a daily bases is made with fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

[derail]
Ummm consider that Big Oil makes more money on Diesel (easier and thus cheaper to refine) than on Gasoline. Now why wouldn't Big Oil make sure that every car used the fuel that they can make alot of money on vs the fuel that is harder to process?

[/derail]

Manwithoutaplan · Nov 29, 2011

SoCaltaco65 · Nov 29, 2011

Manwithoutaplan said: ↑

Click to expand...

^x2

100% derp value on this one....

Yes, I want to combust a highly combustable ( more the fuel) gas in my Convential combustion engine......Hindenburg anyone?

David K · Nov 29, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by David K
If things like that worked, the car companies would have them on their vehicles... They are doing everything possible to increase fuel mileage.

"If things like that worked, the car companies would have them on their vehicles... They are doing everything possible to increase fuel mileage."

tntacoma said: ↑

I disagree with the above quote. It is my opinion the car companys are only doing the bare minimums to meet new fuel efficiency mandates. The (car manufacturers) are in with big oil. Look at european countries, their gas mileage on their cars kicks our ass. Diesels are far more fuel efficient than gas engines and we still as a nation very reluctanlty are slowly putting them in passenger cars. The big F350 type diesels have so much uneeded government required smog stuff it kills the gas mileage. This country is and will be for a very long time, very dependant on fossil fuels. 65% of all things you come in contact with on a daily bases is made with fossil fuels.
Click to expand...

Car companies do what ever they can to SELL CARS. If Toyota had 2 identicle Tacomas, and one got 30 mpg and the other got 16 mpg (as some do now)... which would you buy (remember, they are identicle otherwise). 'Big oil' is in Europe too... (Shell is a Dutch company, for one) and if it wasn't for 'Big oil', just what would you do, ride a horse?

It is BIG government, not Big oil that is causing our cars to not do as well as European cars or Asian cars do, with BIG government over-regulation and eco-nonesense... Diesel is a fossil fuel, too...

Also, to direct your anger at the true enemy would be helpful... BIG government makes about 50 cents on every gallon of fuel... Big oil makes about 10 cents. Government doesn't provide the product, but they profit the most from it... then force us to get fuel from other countries when we have vast reserves right here... How many billions did Obama just give Brasil to help THEM drill for oil, in Brasil??? Huh???

fritzthecat · Nov 30, 2011

Always fun to read a Hydrogen thread. Lots of misunderstanding and chestbeating.
I don't have a Hydro kit in my Taco, not going to spend money to buy one either. Would try one if it was free.
First, we are not talking about making the Taco run on water. These kits generate a little hydrogen gas which is indroduced into the airstream and is supposed to increase combustion efficiency.
Maybe on an older car that is running badly to begin with, the hydrogen could make a difference enough to overcome a badly tuned carb to give a little more mpg. However, a modern Taco has computer controls and sensors to run the engine iaw the preprogrammed fuel matrix. Introducing a new element - hydrogen - would give the ECU fits and force it to compensate possibly resulting in even worse mpg.
To get anything out of a Hydro kit you'd need to spend some cash. A good kit - not a mason jar and rubber tubing - is expensive. Plus a URD Maf cal or ECU replacement with subsequent fuel map reprograming and dyno runs to tweak the setup.
Even then you would be lucky to get a 10% improvement. Which translates to about U$ 6 a fillup. That's a lot of tanks to fill to make up for the investment not even considering the added complexity and maintenance requirements.

Fritz

jrdbrn · Nov 30, 2011

OP is a salesman LOL

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