I’m having issues

Having a few issues. The main is that it’s hard starting. I suspect a fuel filter or pump. Waiting on the proper tools to show up so I can diagnose it.

Secondary to that, when the key is on but not running, there is an odd “electronic” sound coming from under the hood, and a random, frequent clicking. I’ve isolated the clicking to the injectors. (Touch the back of the injectors and you feel it pulse when the clicking sound happens). The pitch of the sound and the frequency of the clicking increases when you manipulate the throttle. In addition to that, I lost throttle control and got a code (i think it was p2136) for throttle position sensor. I replaced the throttle position sensor (had one in the garage) and that gave me throttle control back, but I’m still getting the clicking and noise. I cleared the code and it hasn't come back. If, while its making its noise and clicking away, you disconnect the connector from the accelerator position sensor, it stops within a few seconds and then throws the same p2136 code.

I had an issue with the accelerator sticking wide open a few years ago. I’m really hoping It’s not the accelerator position sensor, because that means a throttle body and give or take $400. I would throw a throttle body at it, but the injectors are throwing me for a loop. Has anyone had anything similar happen?

I’m curious if this is part of my hard starting issue, but won’t know for sure until I have the tools to diagnose the fuel system.

I have a video that captures the sound, but I haven’t been able to upload it. I’ll keep trying

 

It’s a 2004 with the drive by wire system 5vz-fe

 

Hard starting = Long crank times but it will start.

Injectors leaking fuel fouling the plugs

Once your pressure gauge is installed once you shut off the engine the fuel pressure drops.

Good luck.

 

Spent some time screwing around with the issue. I no longer believe I have a fuel pump/fuel filter issue, although I’m still waiting for the proper tools to show up to diagnose it.

I have found that if I stick the key in and immediately start the engine without pausing at the on position it fires up normally. If I pause for a few seconds (5-10) it starts hard and idles rough at first. If I leave it in the run position for an extended period of time, if floods and fouls the plugs to the point where it will not start without wide open throttle. While the key is in the on position, you can hear the injectors pulsing. I have no codes.

I tested the accelerator position sensor, the throttle motor, the tps, and the crank sensor with a multi meter

The motor was 0.2 ohms out of spec, but the test was done in 30 degree weather rather than the 58 degrees the test calls for and I just have a cheap napa brand multi meter, so I’m a little skeptical of the accuracy.

everything else tested well within the bounds of the test parameters outline in the FSM.

I’m stumped as to why the injectors are firing without the engine turning over.

Does anyone know what sensor or combination of sensors the ECM uses to generate pulse for the injectors?

I’m going to take it to my parents house tomorrow. My dad has access to a scan tool and we’re going to hook it up. I’m just not sure what parameters i should be looking for.

 

Easy fix... don't turn the key (starting the fuel delivery system) and leave it running. Why would you do this anyway? Start the truck and drive it, problem solved.

 

Thanks

 

So, to give an explanation as to why I care…. I’m worried about the issue developing into a, “leave me stranded,” scenario. Which, with the way we use this vehicle is not an option. It’s typically only driven for camping in the middle of nowhere where we need a lifted twin locked vehicle to get to, or that will make the getting there significantly easier. We’re almost always by ourselves, because we don’t have friends with similar equipment and a breakdown is something that at a minimum would be extremely inconvenient and can only escalate from there.

 

Anything mechanical or electrical can fail at any time and let you sit .

Even Horses can go lame and your unable to ride out.

Plan to walk out or wait till you have not made contact and help comes to rescue you.

Depends where you venture even Satellite Phones have no signal .

Good Luck No matter how things work out.

 

I’m pretty sure the pump only runs when cranking. So with the 5vz with key on the on position the pump is not running.

Also, the electric noise you’re hearing is normal for the stupid etcs-I system Toyota used in the 03-04 trucks. It’s probably due to the clutched electric throttle motor used instead of a stepper motor everyone else used and is using. Those pedal position sensors are complete garbage. They’re inconsistent and highly susceptible premature wear due to their nature.

There’s a reason no other manufacturer used contact style sensors for throttle control in the engine bay with vibrations and constant hot/cold cycles. Toyota should have been been forced to fix it with a HALL sensor replacement for its superior accuracy and environmental resistance after all the unintended acceleration issues even if it was due to idiots and floor mats. At the very least they could have supplied the PPS sensor as an individual replacement.

 

This is why I scrutinize this truck. We’re well set up to deal with being stranded, just don’t want to deal with it if we don’t have to and take every precaution to give us the best shot at not being stranded. I’m no stranger to the risk.

 

I’ve heard that the pump doesn't run without the engine running. I’ve also heard that it only runs until it reaches operating psi and then shuts off. I’m 99% confident I’m getting fuel into the cylinders before it cranks. The smell of raw fuel when it does start is overwhelming.

 

Anymore one never knows Glad you have that aspect covered.

These Engines , When Stock The fuel pump is energized when Cranking Then when running when The ECM sees all the correct signals !! Telling the ECM the engine is running.

It should not cycle the pump on and off with pressure that would allow a scan gauge or gauges of that type to read fuel pressure at any time while running

 

Also, I agree that it’s a flawed system. About the only thing that it has going for it is that there is a mechanical connection to the throttle body once the accelerator is pressed far enough. Otherwise, i think its a total POS. Not willing to deal with the headache of reverting it to the older style throttle body at this point, but it sure is tempting.

I’ve had this pickup for 12 years now and while I have heard noise from the etcs, the only time it’s been this excessive is when it decided to stick at WOT on me a few years ago. Come to think of it, I remember hearing excessive clicking from under the hood when that happened too. I disconnected the battery for a few minutes and fired it back up and it has been trouble free since then until now.

 

Interesting. I suppose if there was residual pressure in the lines that the injectors would inject fuel into the manifold until the pressure were at zero. I have a hard time believing that would be enough fuel at 55ish psi to flood the engine, but I don’t know how much compressibility gasoline possesses in a liquid form. I figure it’s similar to water? I’m also under the impression that fuel injectors in a gas vehicle don’t need a certain psi to open like a diesel does, but I could be wrong.

 

Trust me leaking injectors can and will foul the plugs to cause long cranking times

There is a saga on here about leaking injectors It took some of the Top Toyota Techs in America to figure it out.

Ended up putting a camera in the fuel rail and watched it happen.

hold pressure is 21 psi. I forget how much pressure The injectors need to fire without looking.

 

I’m sure leaking injectors will cause it. I just can’t figure out why my injectors are pulsing when the engine isn’t cranking.

 

Pull the fuel pump relay and then turn the key to the on position and see if your injectors are pulsing.

 

If it were a GM ( or anything really), I'd be suspect the ECM is getting wonky. You're right on track to find this I would imagine.

 

One of those things only being up close and in person.

Some way The ECM is telling the injectors to fire.

Unless there is a ignition switch issue causing the ECM to think the engine is cranking.

Interesting I wish I was closer I love a challenge .

 

I don’t know why I didn’t think of this. I’ll go try it. I got under the pickup a while ago and could hear the fuel pump running.