I ask PackerfanXD and others stupid questions about EDRs

Chris, change EBR to HDR in the title

 

Well, if you do then you'll need a threaded barrel and may want to consider a gas piston system. If you're going to throw some $ around consider a $200 tax stamp for a shorty AR.

 

I think i'm gonna go with a BCM middy upper on spike's lower. The Magpul MOE handguards for middys come out this summer.

 

I have no doubt.

I found this interesting...
http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/carbine-vs-mid-length-gas-system


Often times I receive emails and private messages asking why I prefer a mid-length gas system over a carbine gas system on a 16" barrel or asked which carbine I prefer and why. What is written below is a response to an email, the author was considering a Colt LE6920 and a Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) Mid-Length. In my response I explain why I prefer the mid-length gas system over a carbine gas system on a 16" barrel

Colt 6920 has a 16" barrel with a carbine length gas system
BCM Mid-Length has a 16" barrel with a mid-lenght gas system

I own at (3) Colt LE6920's and (3) BCM Mid-Lengths and have used both at work, in training classes, run and gun rifle matches, etc.
ALL (3) of my Colt LE6920's have had their barrels changed to Colt 14.5" SOCOM M4 barrels.
I prefer to use a mid-length gas system on a 16" barrel.
I do not like a 16" barrel with a carbine length gas system (same gas system that is on the military M4 carbine)

If I have to use a carbine length gas system I prefer to use a 14.5" barrel (and I permanently attach a longer flash hider to make the overall length of the barrel 16").

The 3 most common type of gas systems are:
1) Carbine length gas system - (same length as the US Military M4 carbine) and takes a 7.0" rail or handguard.
2) Mid-length gas system - the mid-length gas system is 2" longer than the carbine length gas system (thus the front sight housing and gas hole are 2" forward of where they are on a carbine length gas system). The mid-length takes a 9.0" rail or handguard.
3) Rifle lenght gas system - (same gas system on the AR15 or M16A2 / M16A4 with 20" barrel). The rifle length gas system takes a 12.0" rail or handguard.

16" barrel with MID-LENGTH gas system:
16" barrel with CARBINE gas system: (pictures property of Bravo Company USA, used with permission)


As you look at both pics, pay close attention to the distance between the front of the receiver and the front sight tower. You can see the mid-length upper has a longer gas system and the front sight housing is 2" forward as to the location of the carbine length gas system.

When talking about the different gas systems on a 16" barrel, think about the distance from the gas hole to the end of the barrel. The longer that the bullet is in the barrel after the bullet passes the gas hole, the more gas that is getting pushed back through the gas tube and back into the gas key. The end result is a sharper recoil impulse.

This is why on a 16" barrel, a mid-length gas system is slightly smoother than a carbine length gas system.
The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 16" barrel with carbine-length gas system is approximatley 9.5".
The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 20" barrel with rifle length gas system is approximatley 7.5"
The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 16" barrel with mid-length gas system is approximatley 7.5"
The distance from the gas hole to the end of the A2 flash hider on a 14.5" barrel with carbine-length gas system is approximatley 7.5"

Something to note. The 20" barrel with rifle length gas system, 16" barrel with mid-length gas system, and 14.5" barrel with carbine length gas system all have the same amount of dwell time (distance from the gas hole to the end of the barrel).
The 16" barrel with the carbine length gas system has a dwell time that is approximtely 1.5" longer. Thus it's pumping more gas into the bolt carrier key, forcing it back hard, etc. The 16" barrel with the carbine length gas system is harder on parts over the long term and you'll feel slightly more recoil impulse. Not a huge thing, but after shooting all 3 side by side on numerous occasions, I see no need to own a 16" barrel with a carbine length gas system. I own (18) AR15's. (2) are short barreled barreled rifles, the rest of my AR15's are either 14.5" M4's with a carbine length gas sytems or 16" Mid-Lengths

 

I use my AR for competition-a match every 2nd Sunday of the month and a practice session every 3rd or 1st Sunday. That equates to roughly 400 rounds of quality shooting a month. I definately prefer my mid-lenth gas on a 16 inch vs. a carbine lenth system. I personally feel the recoil impulse is smoother and it works with my comp better. Not that 5.56 is a heavy recoil caliber, but the mid-lenth seems less violent so that in competion I can double tap paper, or get that next 6 inch plate faster. I have let other try it side by side with thier M-4's with carbine gas systems and they have had similar conclusions.

Just my experiance, YMMV, but since there are so many options now, most quality manufacturers offer a mid-lenth for about the same $$ as a carbine. Only other cost issue in my view is on handguards/rails, and with a mid lenth you have to get one a 2 inches longer in most applications. If you were gonna just run a 13" for a reece style anyway, well no matter what gas system. I'm partial to the Viking version of Troy Extreme Battlerails, 11" is perfect IMHO, light, skinny and comes with rail sections to mount what you want. Also, about 1/2 the cost what some rails cost.

 

Chris changed the title from EBR (Evil Black Rifle) to EDR instead of HDR (Homeland Defense Rifle)

 

So, Packerfan and others, if I buy:
This lower: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=56222/pid=31719/sku/Stripped_AR_15_Lower_Receiver
and this upper: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm with BCM BCG & Charging Handle
To complete the build I'll need a lower parts kit, grip, stock, and handguards. Is that everything? Or will i need other things?

 

I was thinking either MIAD or ergo for the grip. I'm gonna wait on trigger upgrades until I can try out some different kinds and find what works.
But is that all I need to build the rifle? Or am I missing some parts?

 

I like piston becasue I am lazy... if you shoot suppressed it gets filthy anyway but the carbon is no baked on. Lots of money for small gain... still shoots gas in your face.

I like nitrited barrels over stainless or chrome. Chrome is less accurate stainless is not as tough. Its really preference though. If its not a sub MOA precison rig definantly forget stainless.

Barrel weight I prefer as light as needed. Extra weight is just useless. If you shoot offhand, close, and rapid fire lightweight all the way. Prone, slow fire, long range heavy. In between? Midweight or "SOCOM" profile.

I dont care about iron sight length. I can put flips on a longer rail on a carbine so no advantage there. I dislike the standard front iron sight. I use primarily optics. Irons are for when my optics are broken or ruined only. I feel no difference in recoil for carbine or midlength... at least not enough to matter. Just use a stronger reoil spring and heavier buffer if you have excess bolt speed.

Twist? 1/7 all the way. Handles 55 grain just fine but excells with heavy OTM ammo which has the best accuracy and terminal ballisstics.

What gun do I carry at work for use against bad guys? 11.5" SOCOM profile, carbine gas, piston, midlength FF rail, folding Troy sights, chrome lined barrel, teflon/electroless nickle coated carrier. I also have a 2 stage adjustable trigger (Geissele) which I feel is better for shooting in close than milsec or the non adjustable Geissele. It is better at long range than anything those too but that is not its main purpose. I also have a silencer (M4 SPR/M4) so I dont blow out my eardrums shooting in a house and use 75 grain 5.56 pressure TAP as my duty load.

I definantly reccomend the SBR and silencer options.

 

The LPK should include a grip. You'll need to choose a rear sight too.

 

gonna go with a BUIS, probably troy. thought about magpul but i've read alot of ppl breaking them cause they're plastic

 

to jump on the subject of SBR's I am planning on building a 10.5 (Suppressed). Any recommendations onwho I should go with? I am waiting on my NFA stamp to come in, and, considering that Bushmaster will be making the shorter barrels for the ACR, should I just wait and go with that ( a multi caliber platform that can support multiple barrel lengths)? I've got an idea of waht I want,but its always nice to get some input.

 

What serial # did you put on your paperwork? The one from your ACR or an AR lower? Or are you asking what suppressor to go with?

 

I sent in the serial off my AR lower, I am debating on sending in the ACR serial also. For supressors, I am looking at AAC or Gemtech,but want ot get my truck mostly finished before I bite the bullet on new weapon stuff.

 

Others like rob_s might chime in about suppressors...not my area.
Let us know if you get another stamp for the ACR.

 

ideally, I'd like to eventually dump the AR altogether and just have one platform (I suscribe to the "light is right" theory) that is capable of handling various scenarios. The more I think about this, the more I like it, I could run the same setup for a CQB/ mid range, then change to reach out farther. I didnt think the 6.8 would take off, but the damn round is slowly but surely gaining popularity. Supressors for both are still on my list, my hearing sucks as it is, and you cant deny the usefullnessof a suppressed weapon.

 

6.8 does not suppress as well as 5.56... you use either overbored 5.56 cans or .308 cans... neither of which is ideal but the 6.8 is a great round. I dont like the lack of PMAGS for 6.8 either and thus I dont use it.

I think 10.5" is too short... just really limited on velocity. I think 12.5" is the ideal barrel length. It allows for back over the barrel cans like the best AAC, Ops Inc, and Surefire units. The ACR also requires a longer barrel for a given minimum length when used with a can. Not sure on minimum length to be used with an SPR/M4... may be 13-14.5" or so depending on the way the gas system is set up in production SBRs.

The biggest thing I am looking for is a closed upper (no charging handle in rear like almost all ARs) becasue the opening in the handle slot on the upper is where all the smoke exits every suppressed AR set up I have tried. If the ACR does not act like havig a lit cigar in front of my face slowly seeping thick smoke (like my LWRC does) I may switch. For example, the FN2000 does not put any gas in the users face becasue of a lack of a hole for the smoke to get in your face. Its a fat pig of a rifle though.