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I hope no one plans to use birdshot for a defense load

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by JimBeam, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. Jun 3, 2010 at 10:33 PM
    #1
    JimBeam

    JimBeam [OP] BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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  2. Jun 3, 2010 at 10:37 PM
    #2
    Andrew H

    Andrew H What is this "search" you speak of?

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    you dont think a 12g loaded with birdshot could kill someone?
     
  3. Jun 3, 2010 at 10:38 PM
    #3
    JimBeam

    JimBeam [OP] BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    no...but i just thought it was an interesting video and couldnt come up with a better title to draw people in
     
  4. Jun 3, 2010 at 10:40 PM
    #4
    Andrew H

    Andrew H What is this "search" you speak of?

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    hm. I dont know to be honest. But I bet if you put the barrel next to someones head it would kill em. or close enough to their body. but from across a room or hallway... it may just annoy the person. i dunno.
     
  5. Jun 3, 2010 at 10:41 PM
    #5
    JimBeam

    JimBeam [OP] BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    it does however make me feel better about keeping 00buck within reach at the apt over the birdshot
     
  6. Jun 3, 2010 at 10:42 PM
    #6
    Andrew H

    Andrew H What is this "search" you speak of?

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    agreed.
     
  7. Jun 3, 2010 at 10:59 PM
    #7
    Gallehant2791

    Gallehant2791 The SciVis Teacher

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    Tube full of 00buck and 5 slugs in the saddle, always a few feet away from me. People sometimes think its a bit much but we'll see what they say when someone breaks into their home and they aren't prepared.
     
  8. Jun 3, 2010 at 11:38 PM
    #8
    JimBeam

    JimBeam [OP] BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    youre talking to someone who has 2 shotguns and 3 pistols within arms reach of my bed with a mixture of .40, .380, 00buck, and slugs...
    :D
     
  9. Jun 3, 2010 at 11:54 PM
    #9
    jhodge83

    jhodge83 Any dog under 50# is a cat and cats are useless... Moderator

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    wat?
    ur girl did say that you resemble the ^^asian guy in the pants...
     
  10. Jun 3, 2010 at 11:59 PM
    #10
    Manlaan

    Manlaan Well-Known Member

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    Just ask Dick Cheney how effective bird shot is...

    #OO buck in the tube plus slugs in the side saddle for me as well. Anything smaller than #4 buck is probably not worth much for defense.

    As far as what can kill vs what cant, a bb gun can kill if hit in the proper spot, so the "what can kill" argument is pretty moot.

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958 is a good comparison of penetration of many different types of shotgun shells. Generally, if the round cant penetrate 12" of gel, its not going to be any good against a heavy clothed bad guy. In the end, choose the correct ammo for the correct application. Unless your planning on defending against baywatch actors or playboy models at 5' distance, something more than birdshot is really needed for true stopping power.
     
  11. Jun 4, 2010 at 12:03 AM
    #11
    JimBeam

    JimBeam [OP] BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. Jun 4, 2010 at 6:16 AM
    #12
    dgr540

    dgr540 I've got the FUNK

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    I have my 00buck right next to my 12g.
     
  13. Jun 4, 2010 at 6:24 AM
    #13
    Zombie Runner

    Zombie Runner Are these black helicopters for me?

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    should'nt it be IN your 12g?
     
  14. Jun 4, 2010 at 6:26 AM
    #14
    Zombie Runner

    Zombie Runner Are these black helicopters for me?

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    shotgun loads vs. the box o' truth

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm


    Birdshot as a Defense Load
    I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

    We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

    A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

    In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

    Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

    But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
    Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

    Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.

    When To Use Birdshot
    A friend of AR15.com sends this:

    "I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

    It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'"
     
  15. Jun 4, 2010 at 6:42 AM
    #15
    kinetik873

    kinetik873 Well-Known Member

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    stack 0 buck and safety slugs, and use remington Golden saber +p SEJHP in my 9mm... if that fails, I have my fur coated razor blade to tear them apart.
     
  16. Jun 4, 2010 at 6:44 AM
    #16
    ppeter

    ppeter Nerdfighter

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    "Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot."
    LOL....
     
  17. Jun 4, 2010 at 8:24 AM
    #17
    OH-MAN

    OH-MAN Well-Known Member

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    This site is great, no one selling any brand or type of ammo or firearm.
    Just plain old shoot the stuff and see what it does.

    00 buck if my choice in a shotgun.
    Slugs are a very powerfull load, another great pick.
    Birdshot might work but I would rather have something that will work.
     
  18. Jun 4, 2010 at 8:26 AM
    #18
    HondaGM

    HondaGM Roll Tide

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    at 5 to 8 feet bird shot would take you off your feet
     
  19. Jun 4, 2010 at 8:34 AM
    #19
    jrobson

    jrobson Well-Known Member

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    I stagger mine. First round bird shot, if they're still coming then they get 4 rounds of 00 buck.
     
  20. Jun 4, 2010 at 8:45 AM
    #20
    TacticalTaco

    TacticalTaco Active Member

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    When I was in grade school a guy got shot in the stomach point blank with birdshot. He survived, took him a while to recover though. You would not survive a load of 00 buckshot, basically the same as being shot 9 times with a .38. As far as bear defense goes though I would stick with slugs.
     
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