Icon 2.5 C/Os + King 14x700 Springs

Great informative thread!

Mt truck is a 2012 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 with plate bumpers front and rear, full steel skids, on-board air with tank, a rack for RTT, and sliders. I have the Icon front coilovers (no remote resivoirs) with extended travel. Bought them just over a year ago and have about 12k miles on them I added the bumpers after the suspension and you can probably guess where I am going..

The street ride is fine, truly better than stock. But off road I seem to go through the travel too easy and bottom out unless I drive quite slow. I'm not a young kid, but would like to go a bit faster at the dunes for example. At this time the preload is about 1.5" on each side and this is as I took them out of the factory box. I have about 2" lift over stock last I measures it.

From my reading here at Tacoma World it is likely I need to:
1) add more preload, but I don't particularly want more heigth, just more resistance to wheel travel (If I am saying this correct). or
2) stronger springs on the coilovers and/or longer springs I think they have 650 pound springs as delivered.
3) one of the above plus revalving?

With so low mileage I doubt they need rebuilt, but let me know what you think.

Best Regards,

 

If you want the best, you'll have to go with an extended travel setup -- very $$$, b/c it involves new, wider upper and lower control arms, new shock mounts, new, longer coilovers, and new longer axle shafts. Basically, it's like starting over on your front suspension, making your investment to date meaningless . . . . you'd have to sell everything.

Next best option , is to get the adjustable remote reservoir added onto your existing coilovers (they take your coilovers that you mail them, and then add the remote reservoir and the adjustable dial setting). Then, you can try all the different settings until you get what you want.

I don't think you're going to need to replace your coil spring. Trust me, I've done it. And frankly, if I had it to do over again, I'd just stick with the 650 lb/in spring and add enough preload to get the ride height I want, knowing that any additional preload/ride height = less down travel.

 

Thanks for the reply. I am not looking for more height at rest. For me 2" over stock is fine, and allows for droop which is mandatory for traction off road . My issue is that at any speed above modest I feel the suspension bottoms out too fast. I don't know if 700 pound springs would keep the truck "up" sufficiently or if firmer shock valving would be the better approach. I posed this question to the Icon Factory guy on this thread a couple days ago and wantto hear his suggestion as well.

I do like the idea of being able to adjust the shocks as I could then set it stiff for big bumpy stuff like at the dunes and / or soft setting for a highway trip.

 

Ours gets a smidge more travel at full compression, keep that in mind as it is important. Replied to this because I seem to keep getting asked.

 

If I read this right

• You do not want more height but are going through the travel off road in certain situation with the set up you have
• The current street ride is good
• Assuming the coil overs are holding up the truck ok with the spring rate you currently have

Best option I would recommend is go with the remote reservoir and CDC upgrade. This is $845.00 (includes all part for remote reservoir and CDC valves with basic rebuild and labor) but will allow you to keep the on road ride you seem to like, turn the dial to add compression valving when going off road to prevent going through the travel as easily, then dial it back again when returning to daily street driving.

If this is not an option financially (as I do understand it is not cheap) I would send them in or work with vendors such as Down South Motorsports to re-tune the shocks and find a happy medium. We offer 1 free re-valve with the purchase of our shocks if you send them in to us. Ride and performance is subjective to each user, and as we do what we feel is best out of the box, the ability to adjust and tune the shocks is a great feature!

We do not recommend even thinking about a 700lb coil unless you have at least 200lbs additional weight over stock and at that a little more is better. (200lb's is the bare minimum) Another thing as you mentioned as an option is to change the pre-load to help. Pre-loading the coil more does not change the actual rate, these are linear rate springs so the rate does not change. What can change ride quality or performance is the ride height you have the truck set at as the arm angle will affect the amount of total leverage on the coil at different lift heights. There is more factors to consider here as it can be a bit of a long conversation, but that is the point, and it will not help you in your ultimate goal.

Hopefully I covered your questions and have provided some dierection, let me know if there is anything else. Glad to help

Brad

 

Just wanted to mention on this one comment that the ICON 13 x 650lb coil gets 100% travel at any pre-load height we have available on these shocks. The thread count on the body is engineered with the coil design to allow this.

 

Of course, any preload setting still allows 100% travel, but NOT 100% down travel. By definition, any additional preload = decreased down travel, by the exact amount of additional ride height achieved by the additional preload.

As for the OP, I still recommend the adjustable remote reservoir. If too much $$, custom tuned shocks is an option. Another option is actually a decreased spring rate. One member is using a 600 lb/in coil spring and prefers it when traveling at relative high speeds over the bumpy, sandy, dune stuff.

 

Brad,
Thanks for the informative reply. My 2012 Tacoma has:
1) Steel front plate bumper with a Warn M8000 winch plus,
2) Steel IFS (front) skidplate, steel Tranfer case skid and the steel mid plate,
3) A 75 pound battery (adds 28 lbs over OEM battery) and sliders.

I would estimate this to be well over 200 pounds although not all of it is over the front wheels.

I could justify adding a few turns of preload to my existing 650# 13" springs as I would still have decent down travel, but as you describe I beleive I need the stiffer shock setting to prevent using up all the up-travel on medium bumps. I was thinking the stiffer 700# springs would resist bottoming by themselves.

My extended travel ICON coilovers are about 18 months old and just 13k miles now. Trying to decide between straight rebuild / revalve to stiffer, or the full rebuild to include remote resivoirs and the adjustable valving.

My truck is street driven for most miles, you have to get to the trails afterall, but I do have a car for normal back an forth to work.

 

Sorry I should have deleted off the last little bit about droop loss.....I was commenting in regards to the first part of the sentence and that you can use all the threads on our coilover safely to hold up the care if needed to get to the desired 1-3" lift accounting for the additional weight. The truth is not every coil over out there gets full travel with out binding the spring at full bump. People have shown concern about pre-loading the spring to much and that an issue will be cause by doing so. Ultimitely I was attempting to add to your point and confused it a little, so my bad there.

Decreasing the rate would def not be the right move IMO with the added weight as you will likely run into issue holding up the truck properly. Tuning is all that should be needed here, should get it right were he wants it.

 

Well I think look at it as to how bad it really is......if you are looking for a 25% or less improvement my guess is we can do it through valving. If you are looking for more than that based on your additional accessories you mentioned then the 700lb coil would likely be justified. With that said you will have to decide between standard tuning or moving to the resi with CDCV. I prefer the later option because I know how happy people have been with it and what you get out of it, but as someone that is no different that you the cost is a factor for sure.

 

So if I jack up the truck supporting it securely and then remove the existing Icon front coilovers, crate them up and ship them to Icon for conversion to remote resivoir and adjustable compression damping (CDC) AND replace the 650 pound springs with 700 pond springs. I have a couple more questions:

1) What would this cost? (remote Resi /CDC upgrade AND new 700# springs) all assembled.
2) Can I get any trade in value for my 10k mile (only driven to church on Sunday ) 650 pound springs? If not I want them shipped back to me.

I am not certain on the 700 pound springs yet, but the CDC or at least stiffer valving is needed and will have to happen.

 

The upgrade with coils and everything installed (including all new seals and oil) would be $1085.00 (+tax on parts if you are in CA). We unfortunately can not do anything with the 650lb coils but you will get them back for sure. If you plan on moving forward with this start here to get a service number and follow the details on how to send them in. We do this on Tuesdays so you want to plan to have it delivered here no later than Monday so they get done Tuesday and shipped back right away.

Here is a link to the ICON service page:
http://www.iconvehicledynamics.com/tech-support/shock-service/

 

Probably be better off just buying new and selling what you have...

 

Howdy, I know this build is from a while ago, but do you remember what paint you used for those coils? I assume you painted them before putting them on the shock body. Did you have to prep them at all? I want to go for a similar look, those look great!

 

I'd recommend you powder coat them prior to installing them onto the coilover.

 

Why did you decide to go with the Kings over the Icon 700lb coil?

 

^^ no reason. I didn't even know icon offered a 700 lb coil at the time.

 

I want to make sure I understand what you and @icon_rep are saying here.

Assume you have a 13" spring (regardless of rate) that requires the collar to be threaded down the body 2" to achieve a desired ride height. If you go to a 14" long spring that presumably only requires the collar to be 1" down the shock body for the same ride height you will gain 1" of down travel and lose 1" of up travel?


I'm trying to nail down 650# vs 700# to replace 600# springs (this on FOX 2.5" IFP no reservoirs) to compensate for an ARB and winch. I'd also like to achieve around a 1/2" of additional lift, a little more than this is fine but I don't want to end up with a ton. I'm sitting at 22" center of wheel to fender lip with just the a dual battery (roughly 30# over factory group 27) and stock bumper and skids.

I think I want 14", 650# coils because I have synthetic rope and will have the factory skids for the foreseeable future. I'm only about 2-1/4" down the shock body (with stock bumper), so it's not excessive yet. I believe the +1" of spring length and +50 rate increase should be all I need. It rides good now and I don't want to make it a ton more firm. OTOH I also still run a sway bar and wouldn't mind at all ditching it.

Just thinking through the ramification of going to 700# springs and taking the pre-load out to none. It sounds as if adjusting the preload too much could move the travel out of balance, ending up with too much up or down. I also want to do a bit of chin scratching to see if moving the collar all the way to the top might also push the shock too far towards one end of its stroke, too. I don't want the shock to end up sitting at either full compression or extension when the travel approaches it's limits.

 

No. If the 13" length spring and 14" spring have the same spring rate in your example here ^^, your ride height would be exactly the same, your overall travel would be exactly the same and the down travel and up-travel would be the same. Because you threaded the collar 1" less for the 14" spring, the amount of compressive force in the two springs is the same, and therefore ride height, etc are the same. If you were to thread the collar on either of the two springs and additional inch or 1/2 inch or whatever, then your ride height would increase, and your down-travel would decrease. The down-travel would decrease by the exact same amount of increased ride height. The difference between a 700 lb spring and 650 lb spring is the amount of additional ride height achieved by threading the collar a given amount. For a given truck, threading the collar an additional 1/2 inch will increase the ride height more with the 700 lb spring than the 650 lb spring. The amount of additional ride height achieved is a linear relationship with a linear spring, but the slope of the two lines is different. The real important difference is in how "soft" / "squishy" the ride is with the two springs. The ride will be firmer with the 700 lb spring than the 650 lb spring for any given truck. How desirable a firmer ride is for you depends on your preference and also on the vehicle's weight. In other words, one can achieve the exact same "softness" or "firmness" ride quality with the two spring rates, if the vehicle with the 700 lb springs is heavier in the front.

 

For your situation, I would recommend either a 14" long 600# spring or a 14" long 650# spring. My recommendation comes from my many experiences riding in many different 2nd gen tacomas with after-market coil-overs. You will be able to achieve your desired 1/2" increase in ride height with either spring. It will just be a matter of where you need to thread the collar to. You will have plenty of collar thread to work with in either case b/c of the 14" long spring automatically decreases how much thread you need from current by 1". (assuming current springs are standard 13" long).