I'm Stumped! Another starter thread...

My son and I picked up a 2000 2.7 4WD A/T SR5 about a year ago for his first car. It was a grandpa grocery getter when we got it. New suspension, wheels/tires, wheel bearings/seals, radiator/hoses, and we had it ready to go by the time he got his license. It had 230K on it when we got it and now about 235K. We have had zero issues with it other than the lock cylinder would occasionally stick. This required the key to be jiggled for awhile or turned around, but with enough patience it always worked.

About 2 months ago it would sometimes just click when he tried to start it. This would happen about every 20th start or so. This could always be resolved by hooking the NOCO jump box to it, and it would fire right up. It became a bit more frequent, so I picked up a reman Denso starter from Toyota. We put the new starter in and had zero issues with it for about a month, until I got a call that the truck was dead in the water in the high school parking lot. I went out there with some tools and the multimeter. Battery 12.6+ (6 mo old), would not start with the jump box hooked up either, just one single click. Terminal connections very clean and solid. I suspected the starter relay so tried to jump it with a wire, no luck. No popped fuses found. Put the relay back in, a few more single clicks, then nothing at all. Dash lights, radio, etc. still functional. Battery voltage still 12.6+. I'll also note that all ground points under the hood are clean a solid as I addressed that right after we bought the truck. Tired of working on it in a rainy parking lot I towed it home.

I ordered a new OEM starter relay, and also noticed there was some corrosion in the wires themselves that connect to the positive side of the battery, part of the No.2 engine wire assembly. Not on the terminal connection but just under the wire jacket about an inch up from the connection. I got a whole new No. 2 engine wire harness and installed as I suspected low voltage due to 23 year old wiring. Every thing hooked up correctly exactly as it was with the old harness. No key in ignition...the starter started cranking the second I touched the negative terminal to the battery. Pretty confused at this point and I also realized that I had not put the new starter relay in the fuse box. I pulled the old one out and put the new one in. Hooked the battery back up and the starter did not crank. Good news right? Not so much.

Hopped in the truck and cranked it over, fired right up but sounded a little funny so immediately turned it off. The engine shut down and the starter continued to run. I hopped out and disconnected the negative terminal to stop the madness.

Problem with the ignition switch? At this point what would it hurt to rule that out. I found a new lock cylinder (fixed the sticky key problem) and also put a new ignition switch in. Fingers crossed, cranked it over, fired right up, sounded funny, shut it off, starter still cranking with key off, disconnected battery.

The only thing that I can think of is that after I put the new starter in IF the old wiring was causing lower than ideal voltage to the starter maybe it fused the contacts together in the starter? Apologies for this being so long.

Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

This could be possible, otherwise it would have to be something keeping the starter relay energized.

 

That makes sense, but what would cause the relay to remain energized? Appreciate the response. I've had a lot of old Land Cruisers over the years, only a few Tacomas, but have replaced a lot of starters with remanufactured Densos, never had a problem with any of them. I only buy Denso for that reason. I'd be surprised if it's the new (reman) starter but I guess it's possible.

 

Pop the starter relay out when it acts up, if it quits cranking the you have something keeping the relay energized. If it doesn't then something is wrong with the starter.

 

I will try that, thanks.

 

Had my son start it, turn it off about a second after it fired, the starter continued to run as it has been. I then pulled the starter relay out and the starter continued to run. I pulled the negative off and it stopped. Obviously when the key is turned to start without the relay in it does not turn over. That being said I guess I can rule out the relay and pull the new starter back out and warranty it through the dealer. Unless there are any other suggestions before that. Much appreciated for the replies.

 

I mean unless the wire going to the S terminal of the starter is somehow shorted to the output wire of the starter solenoid I don't see what else it could be other than the starter solenoid hanging.

 

I checked that, it's definitely not. I'll see if I can get another starter by the weekend and will report back. Again, appreciate the help.

 

Do you have a lot of keys ( weight ) on the key ring ? I've had countless customers bring vehicles back after doing remote starters having issues like yours. Most of which was mechanical failure in the tumbler caused by key rings with everything but the kitchen sink hanging off the ignition cylinder . Just a thought for ya to consider looking at

 

Starter mount not flush? Or flywheel worn to where the bendex jams on there? The relay just pops the bendex out to engage the flywheel. Sometimes they can get jammed on there not releasing it. Just a thought. When it does this again (starter keeps running when you shut the ignition off). Wack on the starter with a hammer (don’t hit it with a BFH!) a couple times to see if it disengages.

 

Update: appreciate the last few replies. No weight, only the single key at the moment in the new lock cylinder. The starter was mounted flush. I picked up another new starter today and put it in. Zero visible wear or damage to the starter I took out or to the teeth on the flywheel. New starter in. Hooked the negative terminal up. Opened the drivers door (key out of ignition) and the chime was going off as if the key was in the ignition. I don't recall it ever doing this before. Put the key in and turned it to acc, run, off, etc..removed key, chime still sounding. Goes off when door is closed. Turned the key to start and it fired right up. I could tell by the sound that the starter did not continue to run as before. Let it warm up for a few minutes, turned it off, starter not still cranking as it was before. Turned key to start again, fired right up. I repeated this a few times, and then on the 3rd or 4th it just clicked once. Tried again, it started, next time one click then immediate start with key still turned to start after the single click. Battery fully charged, reads 14+V when running, 12.6V when off. It seems like it's still not getting adequate voltage when trying to start possibly? New No. 2 wire harness, new starter, new starter relay, new ignition switch, new lock cylinder, what's next? Regarding the door chime, I pulled the lock cylinder out again to make sure everything was properly aligned and it was. Only goes in and out in ACC that puts the slot/tab alignment at 45 degrees. There is the wire that comes out of the lower part of the fuse box that attaches to the pos battery terminal. Could that be suspect?

 

Have you verified it's not just another faulty starter?
Easy enough to do with a test light and a helper.

The other problem sounds like an issue with the key in (Unlock Warning) switch.

 

Starter checks out good. I'm going to swap the battery from another rig just to rule that out and see if the starter does the same thing. Next step after that the + wire from the fuse block to the battery. Not much left..

 

Did you take a test light and see what your missing at the starter?