Is the Confederate flag a symbol of racism?

Post up the history that supports it.^

 

x2............lets see it.

 

In God We Trust was made the US motto in the 1950's. Prior to that is was E. Pluribus Unum. "From Many One" We didn't get all Godly until we were fighting the Atheist Commies.

 

I visited the Lee Mansion (Arlington Cemetery now), and in there they show where Robert E. Lee and the family held their slave's weddings in their living room, and celebrated holidays with them in the main house.

Far from what Uncle Tom's Cabin would have you believe.

 

Remember the North had its cheap labor as well. Many would consider the first urban ethnic group (the Irish) slaves in the industrial north. Post civil war the recently freed slaves were seen at a higher social class than the Irish. These poor men, women, and children were worked in very dangerous manufacturing or slaughtering jobs 18 hours a day, and paid just enough to keep them in debt to the companies they worked for.

Just a different perspective on who was actually exploiting who.

 

X3

 

Don't get me started on the way history has been twisted with regard to the Indigenous Americans.

Christopher Columbus is honored with a holiday, yet he was responsible for the first genocide (5 million Arawack / Taino Indians), and starting the first child sex slave trade back to europe. He writes in his journals about how he is disappointed there is a shortage of 8-9 year old girls as they fetch a premium.

Lets face it, those in power exploited those who were powerless on all sides. Those who won the wars wrote the history books to paint their position in the best light.

 

I love this country more than any country but the next man in office better have a set of F'ing balls to turn this country around other wise I do not see a very bright future for America.

 

I actually think the burden is on your side to provide credible links to support that the war/confederate movement was not about the right to own slaves. I can find credible sources that say it is, so now provide some that show otherwise. And credible does not mean some Joe from who knows where saying whatever based on his opinion.

 

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,but something else also.Isnt an American at all. We have room for but one flag,the American flag. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people. Theodore Roosevelt 1907 Teddy didnt believe in Dual-Citizenship,I think he would just call you a Canadian who happens to live in the USA

 

You can find them but fail to post them.
Check your history. The flag represented those states that wanted so secede from the union. Only the last year of the civil war was it even brought up that the war was to abolish slavery. Not to mention that after the war the North still had slavery. So does the American flag stand for slavery? Why did the slaves that traveled the underground railroad run to canada when they could have just found so called safety in the North? Probably because they were slaves there also. So you see there is no burden on my side, its simple history. But thanks for pointing out the fact that you are lacking in your american history.

"The false notion that the Battle Flag must be a racist symbol is born of the mistaken belief that the Civil War was about slavery. This bit of propaganda has been repeated ever since President Lincoln and his political allies decided to “free the slaves” (in actuality Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Confederacy, slaves in Union states such as Maryland and West Virginia remained slaves). The truth, however, is plain to anyone who wishes to delve into the history, and the proof lies in the proposed Corwin Amendment of 1861. This amendment was proposed by Congressman Thomas Corwin (R) from Ohio and stated,

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.
​

Prior to his election, Lincoln had voiced his support of the amendment. Like many politicians of his time, Lincoln believed in the preservation of the Union beyond all else. When the Bill was brought before the House seven states had already formally left the Union (Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina) never the less the bill passed 133-65 and was forwarded to the Senate. In March of 1861 the Senate approved the bill 24-12. Both of these votes were from a Northern majority, seeing as most of the South had already left. Both the outgoing President, James Buchanan, and the newly elected Abraham Lincoln publicly endorsed the amendment. In fact, during Lincoln’s inaugural address he had this to say of the Corwin Amendment,

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution–which amendment, however, I have not seen–has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied Constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.1
​

The amendment went on to be ratified by Ohio, Maryland, and then Illinois before the outbreak of the Civil War halted the process of adopting the new amendment. Now ask yourself, if the Civil War was really about slavery why didn’t the Corwin Amendment, already passed by the Federal Legislature and well on its way to ratification (given the three free states which had ratified it, and the 15 slave states which would as well, only four more states would have needed to ratify it), end the conflict? The Northern states had already compromised on slavery. The truth is that the Civil War was not about slavery, it just became popular to create propaganda to make it seem so because it gave the Union an image of moral superiority."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment
Lincoln supported and pushed for this until the war was almost over. War lasted from 1861-1865

 

Thats exactly why people don't know their true history.

 

Religion, political correctness and unions have turned this country into a pile of shit divided right down the middle between the have's and have nots.

 

Nice, citing a Wiki article that the quote is not a part of.. But the article you posted did quote this

So the article supports more of my side than yours.

I think you are the one mistaken and you are the one that needs to brush up on history. Every credible reference that I could find says exactly the same thing, the Civil War was about the Southern states desire to secede because their rights to own slaves were being prohibitted. So if the confederate flag represents the unity of the southern states views of slavery, and their right to own them, that says that the flag represents racism. History might be taught different in the south, but in New Mexico, I think it is clear about what the south's fight in the civil war was about; the right to own slaves and that is racist. Like I said in the beginning, I don't think the flag started out that way, but has evolved to be a hate symbol today.

Here's some more info... This is from the text of Texas Secession Convention of 1861

This was from the Alabama Secession Convention of 1861

This is from the South Carolina address to slave holding states.

This is from the Constitution of the Confederate States of America.

No, it wasn't about slavery at all...........

 

Richman21: Please tell me then why when the north won slavery was continued in the North? The war was because the north was taxing and taking land from the south as well as removing the slaves. Please tell me why the souther slaves fought for the south willingly. The mention of the 1861 convention was to illustrate the fact that Pres. Lincoln was for then against the law that would allow a state to remain as is without creating laws to change the way of life.

 

If the US and Canada went to war whose side would you be on? What side would you be willing to give your life for is what it comes down to and is where Im going with this. My mother is born in Germany and became a US citizen she also holds dual citizenship and she wont hesitate to tell anyone shes an American first and her heritage is German and would go to war for the US against Germany if it came to it I guess that she has a different perspective,she places a high value on the fact that shes able to live freely in the greatest country on earth or she would have never left Europe and never ceases to tell me how lucky I am to be here and not anywhere else.to each his or her own I guess.

 

I don't know why people are still using rope for things, Don't people know rope is racist?
they lynched people with rope! so if you use rope, you are racist!

 

Did you look at my stats on the left? It says: Seattle / St. Louis / Tulsa.

Granted, they may not be the most southern of states, but they are certainly representative of the southern culture in many respects. I grew up in Missouri, which was the site of more Civil War battles than any other state. It was a border state which has a deep history with the Civil War, and I wrote my Master's thesis on the economic developments of Missouri resulting of the Civil War.

Heritage is one thing -- but flying in the face of your nation is completely different. My grandmother came off the boat from Germany when she was 10, and her father used to have fundraising parties for the Nazis in their home. That is my heritage and I am not proud or supportive of that. Why? Because the philosophy is wrong.

And I never said the Confederate Flag is racist. I don't think it is.

In this regard, and under the same battle flag my great, great grandfathers fought under, there is no question that the Confederate battle flag does represent a spirit of Independence for which this great country founded upon. This is the meaning the flag holds for me. Not racism, not evil, not disrespect for the American flag. Questionable organizations with bad intent will continue to use the flag for their own purposes. My guess is we are not going to agree and will have to agree to just disagree.

damn fine post

This is akin to me flying a Nazi flag under the American Flag. Again, it's the philosophy behind the flag which is offensive, not the flag itself.

Identity and heritage are are not the same as same as displaying a symbol of rebellion against the country you swear to love.

To me, the Confederate Flag is a representation of a movement which wanted to not be a continued part of the United States of America. When I see a person display a Confederate Flag, it represents to me an ignorance of the true meaning of that symbol. You cannot support an entity and willingly seek to defy it simultaneously.

Say what you will about "spirit of independence" and heritage -- but the Confederate Flag is not a symbol of those things. It's not a Mexican or Japanese or Russian flag depicting one's ethnicity or family tree. It is a direct symbol of dissent against the country in which the majority of people who display it resides and claim to support.

I for one, would never want to take away a person's right to display the Confederate Flag or any other flag -- for that goes against an even more important Amendment -- the First. But when people claim to support each, it bothers me immensely, for it represents a rebellion which attacks the foundation of the very things most of the ideals they claim to support -- and even provides the the very freedoms to do so. Despite the fact that there are political (and even more effectively, economical) avenues of enacting change and policy shift through the established national doctrines.

The "well, it means XXXX to me," argument does not carry weight, either -- for it is a cop-out, and all I hear is: "I'm too lazy to come to a full understanding of what this symbol represents in the context of American history."

Unlike flags of nations, the Confederate Flag is a symbol of a socio-economic group which sought to remove themselves to from the United States. To support that symbol is to endorse an underlying philosophy of extraction. The ideals are mutually exclusive. To be for the Confederacy is to be against the United States of America.

 

Food for thought

There is a popular notion that the war was fought by slave owners to protect the institution of slavery. The fact of the matter is less than 20% of the population in the south owned slaves in 1860. They were expensive and most southerners were living in meager conditions and could not afford the $500 - $1500 to purchase another human. In the south most of the slaves were owned by very wealthy land owners, who owned hundreds. In the North many more people owned 1-2 slaves (the equivalent of Butler / Maid). The cheap labor in the factories was filled by immigrants (defacto slaves).

The fact is the vast majority of the southern men fought a war for a cause which could not have been slavery, as they never owned a slave. They didn't have a horse in that race. They were fighting for what they perceived was an infringement of their individual rights by a federal government. They wanted a government which served their interest, not the interests of wealthy industrial tycoons. Hmmmm, sounds familiar.