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Just was watching videos of wipeouts, how you go about cornering

Discussion in 'Motorcycles' started by island808, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Feb 13, 2011 at 11:43 PM
    #1
    island808

    island808 [OP] Me l've got brains.

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    Ok, so I've been riding for years, and I still take my MSF courses and a couple other ones, sport bike rider's course, dual sport rider's course, and even a course where we surmounted curbs and stuff at speed. Scary, but they work you up to it.

    One thing we never learned, and I asked a couple times to "guessed at" answers, was.

    "how do you go about setting up and executing a turn greater than 180 degrees or that is incredibly long?"

    See the problem is, you MUST stay on the throttle and accelerate through the turn, and you must slow to where you will meet your proper exit speed at the other side. Well, for instance, the cloverleaf. You'd have to start from a stop to accelerate the whole way round. They can be tight, so you really have to stay on it to keep the bike in check.

    I've got a solution for them, but the second is, really long hard turns on surface streets, especially on single lane roads. These turns are frequently in the mountains with crumblies on the shoulder and guardrails or cliff. No room for error.

    Is there a good answer? I can't find one in my books, but can only construct, using the rules an answer of my own.


    My answer:



    THe off ramp I take frequently is 270 degrees, uphill with a diminishing radius and fairly flat (not banked). I set up like any turn, and "slow look lean roll" but eventually I run out of roll, accelerating to a speed that I can not continue to accelerate from to the exit is necessary to keep the bike steady. SO at the apex (this ramp is very wide) rather than drifting out to the exit of the turn (its still 100 degrees around the circle away) I stand the bike up and jam the brakes then start over, and If I've done it right, exit that 2nd turn just fine. If a car is tailgating, I just have to pussy foot around the corner or make a lot of smaller apexes.


    The way the last teacher said she'd do it was.. just slow look lean roll, length of the turn doesn't matter. Well, kinda, but It's a highway off ramp. I can't just stop on the road, people will start passing me on the inside... seriously.
     
  2. Feb 14, 2011 at 5:56 AM
    #2
    Brunes

    Brunes abides.

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    Unless I'm mis-reading something you are trying to portray- You need not accelerate forward in a turn. You accelerate in the angular sense- but you can hold nearly constant throttle and make it thru a turn.
    My buddies and I used to ride a cloverleaf in Central FL that you could treat almost like a closed race track late at night...We weren't going triple digit speeds- but you could hold a constant speed thru the corners and then find the "right" line for a single turn around the sweep.
    Upsetting the suspension in mid turn and then diving right back in doesn't seem like it would be comfortable.
     
  3. Feb 14, 2011 at 8:55 AM
    #3
    island808

    island808 [OP] Me l've got brains.

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    Eh comfortable? Doesn't effect the seat.

    No, Holding constant throttle is accelerating in the vector sense, sure, because you're turning, but it doesn't follow the rules of increasing linear speed to keep the suspension planted.
     
  4. Feb 14, 2011 at 11:52 AM
    #4
    signalbobby

    signalbobby Well-Known Member

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    Instead of "jamming" the brakes to stand the bike up and redistribute weight to the front, you should treat the turn as a double apex turn if this 270 is that wide and seperated.

    I never recommend riding to any point of extreme on a cloverleaf or on the street. Stay shiny side up.
     
  5. Feb 14, 2011 at 12:36 PM
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    Brunes

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    Comfort isn't just about where you plant your butt. I have a pretty decent seat in the helo and a nice extra cushion that I add to it...and I get uncomfortable feelings quite often.
    Having to pop up, brake, and then dive back in with traffic around is kind of unpredictable for other drivers- I wouldn't feel safe doing that.
     
  6. Feb 14, 2011 at 12:57 PM
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    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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    I would agree with this response. I don't have a problem holding a speed through a long corner.
     
  7. Feb 16, 2011 at 9:12 AM
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    island808

    island808 [OP] Me l've got brains.

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    ANyone CAN hold speed on a long corner.

    Maybe I misunderstand "accelerate throughout the corner". SUre you're leaning and you set your suspension. But without accelerating around the corner, you can lose that rear tire, such as in the videos.


    Maybe I'm over thinking it.

    My neighbor's kid has a 600rr, he would just accelerate around the whole thing. My tires won't allow that.
     
  8. Feb 16, 2011 at 9:23 AM
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    AeroCooper

    AeroCooper Half the strength of ten (microscopic men)

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    This may be obvious to everyone here, but I will post it anyway, because it is the best thing I ever learned about motorcycle safety and cornering.
    Counter-steering is the best and safest way to execute a turn on a motorcycle. What this means is, if you want to turn left, push FORWARD on the LEFT handlebar. No, that isn’t a typo. Try it out sometime when you are on a straight road with no cars around, but do it gently at first because it is VERY effective. It is actually impossible to push the handlebars very far due to the centrifugal force of the front tire spinning. This also only works after you reach maybe 20 mph or so. At lower speeds, just turn it like a regular bicycle. What happens is this: You push forward on the left handlebar, this causes the front tire to angle right slightly. This causes the bike to lean LEFT, which is what you want (obviously) for a left turn. Many beginners tend to just shift their body weight to the left, which is highly ineffective for precision turns. Counter steering makes your turns much more precise, and also makes your ride more fun and much less tiring.
    It sounds scary to someone that has never tried it, but it really does work. If you don't believe it, take a look at any picture of a high speed motorcycle turning, note that the front tire is pointing slightly in the opposite direction of the turn.
    Here's one good pic showing counter steering:
    [​IMG]

    Remember, turn left - push left handlebar, turn right - push right handlebar.
     
  9. Feb 16, 2011 at 2:52 PM
    #9
    island808

    island808 [OP] Me l've got brains.

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    Its not "the best way', its the ONLY way to throw a bike off its center of gravity whether you realize it or not. Even on your bicycle, at higher speeds, you may not feel it, but you're counter steering. At low speeds just leaning works on bicycles. But not on a 400+ lb motorcycle with tires spinning. You can't lean hard enough to make much of a difference. If you stand on your pegs you can do it.

    Local MSF courses are educational and cheap. I recommend them to all and any other specialized or advanced courses you can get are also great. Though I like the basic rider course, cause, here, you use their bikes. I hate pushing my limits on an old parking lot with my money.
     
  10. Feb 16, 2011 at 3:00 PM
    #10
    AeroCooper

    AeroCooper Half the strength of ten (microscopic men)

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    This is the key...many people DON'T realize it, and that is why many bikers will drive right into an oncoming vehicle. They panic and push the left handle bar in an attempt to veer to the right, and sadly this seals their fate, as what they are really doing is forcing the bike to turn left, directly into the oncoming vehicle. The trick is to learn and practice this before it's an emergency situation.
     
  11. Feb 16, 2011 at 4:56 PM
    #11
    island808

    island808 [OP] Me l've got brains.

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    If people are really doing that. Wow.

    I had to take an MSF course for the military even back years and years ago.
    I've since taken more. I have a set of "half tennis balls" for use in parking lots. I really recommend those. And the book Proficient Motorcycling.

    I just got yelled at by a cop for slaloming the yellow line on, what I thought, was a vacant road. Practice, and keep practicing.

    Especially the emergency stops. I've really slacked off on those since going back to the Dual sport.
     
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