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Kings on the rear...

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by hubcapsc, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Mar 14, 2019 at 10:59 PM
    #21
    Yetimetchkangmi

    Yetimetchkangmi Well-Known Member

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    Mike,

    Don't take offense to what is being communicated, just take the advice.
    its not meant to be a put down, it is to help you get what you paid for and a working fun truck.
     
    Ragtag98 likes this.
  2. Mar 15, 2019 at 4:32 AM
    #22
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    Mike, Don't take offense

    :)
    Not sensitive...

    Version 2: next week :thumbsup:

    -Mike "I appreciate all the feedback..."
     
    Yetimetchkangmi likes this.
  3. Mar 15, 2019 at 3:24 PM
    #23
    Rocan

    Rocan Well-Known Member

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    3" Lift, BFG K0, URD Short Throw Shifter with Extended Shift Knob, Air Box Mod, Filled right boot with lead
    Bias relocation bracket is easy. Made this one... 3.5" lift for my All-Pro Expo leaf pack (estimated 4.5" lift without any load, may make another 1/2" taller).


    Go buy the right shocks and relocate them properly. it will feel even better. IMO limit straps are not needed with a leaf spring rear unless if you're running into driveshaft angle limitations, but that isn't the case here.

    20190302_160310.jpg
     
    jbrandt likes this.
  4. Mar 15, 2019 at 3:52 PM
    #24
    chrispchicken9

    chrispchicken9 Well-Known Member

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    Lol should have just got a body kit

    And no shims? How's that pinion/driveshaft angle?
     
  5. Mar 15, 2019 at 4:06 PM
    #25
    Rocan

    Rocan Well-Known Member

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    3" Lift, BFG K0, URD Short Throw Shifter with Extended Shift Knob, Air Box Mod, Filled right boot with lead
    Since I'm such a nice guy... Here is a drawing to work from for a 3.5" lift. Shorten or lengthen the vertical dimensions for your lift height.

    Ignore the lack of dimension standards... I made this for myself.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Mar 15, 2019 at 5:13 PM
    #26
    chrispchicken9

    chrispchicken9 Well-Known Member

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    AHEM..
    EXCUSE ME...

    Don’t u know that’s incorrect!? To dimension each hole individually from the base????? So the further you go out the greater the effective tolerance limit exists!?!?

    Now please promptly delete your computer
     
  7. Mar 18, 2019 at 1:14 PM
    #27
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    Greetings everyone... y'all aren't shy... what do you think about cutting off
    one of the muffler hangers and part of the frame?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Mar 18, 2019 at 8:01 PM
    #28
    jbrandt

    jbrandt Well-Known Member

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    I cut off the rear most exhaust hanger (along with the pipe) when I got shackles.

    It was either grab a hacksaw or figure out a way to remount the exhaust so as to not interfere with the leaf.

    But I wouldn't cut into the frame... at least not unless you weld a reinforcement plate to compensate.

    Maybe. Fabricate a bracket that moves the mount over to not interfere.
     
  9. Mar 19, 2019 at 2:50 PM
    #29
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    I really hope that someone who reads this thread will have, or know someone who has, King 153s on the rear
    of a 1st gen... I'd love to get a picture of the right side oriented like this of other installs...

    [​IMG]

    I've been on the phone with really nice people from King, and email too, they assure me nothing needs to be
    cut to install their shocks.

    Anywho... I talked with the (also nice) folks down at the shop that did the work on my truck today.
    Our plan is for me to bring the truck in on Friday, they'll put everything back to stock, including
    fixing the frame cut and the muffler hangers. When it is back to stock and sitting at full droop
    on their lift, we'll measure from the center of the top mounts to the center of the bottom mounts
    and special order kings that are that length when fully extended. The special order will
    take weeks, so we'll put my old shocks back on so that I can at least drive the truck
    back home... it has some kind of lift on it now, so it might be OK to drive it around as
    normal while I wait on the new shocks to come in.

    Here's the best picture of Kings + Deavers I've found so far:

    [​IMG]

    I reached out to the fellow whose truck is in the above picture through this site's "conversation" feature, and
    he got back with me today... his King shocks were special ordered to be several inches longer...

    -Mike
     
  10. Mar 21, 2019 at 3:43 AM
    #30
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    Bump... just in case there's someone who can supply a picture of the top shock
    mount on the passenger side of King 153s on the rear of a 1st gen...

    Thanks...

    -Mike
     
  11. Mar 21, 2019 at 10:06 AM
    #31
    eon_blue

    eon_blue got boost?

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    @snowboard704 has Kings in the rear on his 1st gen that I believe he got custom ordered IIRC, maybe he can chime in
     
  12. Mar 21, 2019 at 10:24 AM
    #32
    jbrandt

    jbrandt Well-Known Member

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    So wait, the shop is reverting it to stock height THEN measuring for custom shocks, or just putting the stock lower shock hangers back on?


    Is that the only shop within a 300 mile radius of you? I honestly wouldn't go back there...
     
  13. Mar 21, 2019 at 10:25 AM
    #33
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    That would be great... I found this picture earlier today, posted by a fellow a couple of years ago
    who only made a few posts back then and hasn't posted since...

    [​IMG]

    Whether it is right or not, it seems he avoided having a problem with the reservoir hose nipple
    by merely facing it the other way when he slid the top shock-eye over the mount...

    There's a lot of pictures at web-sites that sell 153s that look different than the ones I have,
    I'm pretty sure they just use stock images and not pictures of 153s...

    -Mike
     
  14. Mar 21, 2019 at 10:37 AM
    #34
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    They're going to put the OEM spring plates back on and the OEM bump-stops and whatever, let the Deavers down
    to full droop and measure from there... This is a good shop run by enthusiasts, lots of general experience,
    probably not much 1st gen Tacoma experience (of the kind I needed)... They're going for a re-do, eating
    the Kings that are on there and ordering a new custom length set once we know the length... I'm the
    one who didn't do proper homework first, perhaps you shouldn't take your truck to me :cool: ...

    -Mike
     
  15. Mar 21, 2019 at 11:01 AM
    #35
    jbrandt

    jbrandt Well-Known Member

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    From what you've posted here, I just flat don't trust that shop. Their first action was to goof around with shock mount locations instead of what they are now doing, based (what I assume) on the advice you got from internet strangers.

    You can be an enthusiast, and not know what you're doing (that's basically why we all post on TacomaWorld - we are enthusiasts who don't know what we're doing, lol). That's why you take it to a shop, so you don't have to do the homework - that's their job.

    I can only hope that they are measuring more than just full droop to get you the right length shocks...
     
  16. Mar 21, 2019 at 11:41 AM
    #36
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    I can only hope that they are measuring more than just full droop to get you the right length shocks...

    Center of the top mount to center of the lower mount at full droop is the measurement
    tech support at King indicated was needed... I can tell from our back and forth
    that perhaps we're not communicating... seems to me that when the limiting factor at full
    droop is the Deavers and not the shocks topping out, that's how it ought to be...

    -Mike
     
    Yetimetchkangmi likes this.
  17. Mar 21, 2019 at 11:59 AM
    #37
    jbrandt

    jbrandt Well-Known Member

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    I'm certainly no expert on shock measurements and fabrication, I've just been doing a lot of reading on it lately. Read several threads of people who (by their own admission) screwed the pooch and didn't measure properly, and a lot of back and forth on theory, etc... and how they corrected the issues they had.

    Essentially, the way you (typically) measure for shock length is you need to know the compressed and extended eye-to-eye lenths. Compressed is with the bumps stop fully compressed. If the shock body is too long, you run the risk of bottoming out the shock before hitting the bumpstop. The compression measurements are much more difficult because you usually have to take the leaf pack apart to allow the suspension to flex easier.

    King seems to be confident that won't be an issue in this application. I would certainly defer to King's expertise there.
     
  18. Mar 21, 2019 at 12:07 PM
    #38
    snowboard704

    snowboard704 Well-Known Member

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    Check Build thread
    Okay heres the deal. Had to hop on my computer for this as doing it on my phone was going to take too long:rofl:

    The rear kings you got are for stock height oem replacement ONLY (ie no additional lift). I ran the deaver j59 pack which is what you had with 10" 2.5 kings, BUT I did the bamf shock relocation and completely changed my upper and lower shock mounts.

    Here's the rundown, if your shock if limiting down travel (aka "droop") then its going to ruin your shocks which is why some people run "limit straps" which limit the droop of the rear to keep about 1/2" to 1" of shaft in the shock before becoming fully extended. Usually the leaf pack should limit your down travel making it not necessary for you to need limit straps but it must be measured at full droop and flexing just to be safe.

    You need to measure eye to eye with the truck fully bumped, and measure eye to eye with the truck fully extended also to find a ball park shock.

    The shocks you bought appear to be some sort of short-body made for the tacoma due to there not being much room for them under the bed. The short-body allows enough "up travel shaft" at ride height.

    BASICALLY, just like how you don't want your shocks limiting your down-travel, you also don't want them limiting your up-travel because they will ruin seals and ruin the shocks if they are. WHICH is why you have bump stops. These are the rubber block pieces you see bumping to your frame which should located where the top of the leaf springs are on the sides of the rear end housing. You want these bump stops to come in contact limiting up-travel before your shock compresses fully.

    Without measuring and the shop just throwing things together its a recipe for disaster. I'd venture far enough to say that a lot of peoples setups don't work correctly because they just throw the lift or suspension setup together without testing and cycling.....

    So for your case, you have to ask yourself what you want. Hard to tell from your pictures but clearly need a longer shock, yes you can make those work, sort of, by raising the bottom shock mount but then your wheel travel to shock travel will be terrible, creating not that great of a ride compared to what it could be. I had 10" kings and they were somewhat difficult to fit. A shortbody 10 or even shortbody 12 should fit more like this l l as opposed to more like this / \ .... Not angled is the better option IMO because it's how the shock is designed to work. They do sell the upper crossmember that welds in between your frame for upper shock mounts and then you weld on the lowers also for the best shock placement, theres a few writeups on TW that helped shed light on it before I dove into doing mine.

    You shouldn't be having to go on the forums for all the internet warriors to tell you if certain fab work is good/bad. Yes cutting the frame isn't too bad, as long as it's not a vital area and is reinforced. If this shop doesn't know what they are doing i'd pull it and give it to someone who does. A simple 1.5" lift and throwing the correct shocks on there isn't hard, heck, even the whole relocation, bumpstops, limit straps, etc with leafs isn't hard.

    And yes I would recommend the BPV relocation bracket from bamf or someone who sells them. Basically with that, if you have alot of weight in your truckbed, it tells the bracket to add more braking to the rear, opposite when you lift it creating very weak brakes. Its cheap and takes about 5 min to install.

    Hopefully this can possibly clear some things up
     
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  19. Mar 21, 2019 at 12:50 PM
    #39
    hubcapsc

    hubcapsc [OP] Un-Known Stranger

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    Thanks snowboard704...

    I think this is the gist of what you said, simplified:

    what's the extended measurement at full droop? The shocks should be able to
    extend a little more than that.

    What's the compressed length of the shocks? The bump-stop should stop
    compression before the shock quite compresses all the way...

    you have to ask yourself what you want.

    I want good suspension action. I got Deaver's, not for the 1.5 lift, but because they are progressive by virtue
    of their eight thinner leaves instead of just three or four fat leaves. I probably would be happy with no lift.

    One option that would probably be most of the improvement I'm looking for would be to keep the OEM length Kings,
    and replace the deavers with these OEM-spec Atlas leaf springs that the King tech told me about...

    http://www.atlassuspension.com/oem-leaf-springs.html

    -Mike
     
    snowboard704 likes this.
  20. Mar 21, 2019 at 1:32 PM
    #40
    jbrandt

    jbrandt Well-Known Member

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    By the way, I don't mean to sound argumentative, just making conversation...

    That's good info. I'm glad you've gotten a lead on higher quality aftermarket leafs. Are those custom leaf packs? Or do they stock vehicle specific packs?

    A lot of people ask about OEM height aftermarket leaf springs. Most people just shrug their shoulders because there aren't really a lot of options for stock height, unlike the lifted springs of which there are several options (deaver, OME, etc...). The stock height options are ones like General which apparently tend to sag relatively quickly. I haven't heard much good about the Wheeler's stock replacement leafs either. They are the same 3 leaf design anyway. The other option is full custom which are (obviously) expensive.
     

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