Leaf spring hammer pin, front HELP

Even my progressive Deaver 8lf production leaf spring paks didn't have negative arch.
But IMO they were still too soft to support an acceptable bed load...
especially after they had settled some.

So Deaver altered my production 8lf paks at my request and payment...
into custom 9lf spring packs that can support more load and towing (tongue weight).

An new leaf spring should never have a negative arch...
as that is usually a sign of a worn out spring...
or one that is not stiff enough to support an reasonable load
usually associated with a pick-up truck carrying a load.

No matter how one slices it...
a leaf spring should not be inverted when new
and should be at least flat or even slightly arched.

I would not accept this deficiency on any lf spring that I'd buy
or install on my '00.

 

Your leaf springs look absolutely fine, OP. Rest easy. And your overload leaves, the bottom two leaves in each pack, are also positioned correctly.

 

Your opinion is based on ...?

you're entitled... But I'll not be agreeing with your opinion

While the over load springs may be positioned correctly
for the stock (stiffer) leaf spring pack...
These leaves look to be thinner material
and don't look to support the weight properly.
Even tho inverting the over load springs may be of help
They could create too much lift... or worse...
cause premature wear to the lower leaf they might rub against.

My Deaver leaf springs discard the use of the over load springs
and instead encorporate additional leaf springs that arch
the same direction as the other leafs in the springs pak.
The upper leafs sport plastic pads between each leaf end.
But the two lower leafs do not.

Break down picture...



Even when compressed fully...
my leaf springs minimally invert.




these leafs are actually overly compressed
as the bump stop is still the original
and likely should have been made a little taller.
But I'm ok with the added stress/wear to the springs.


Inverted lf springs are not good... period
But even worse are leaf springs displaying a "W" type negative arch.
Any lf spring that is inverted when static (no load or compression to them)
will be likely be worse when they are.

Gonna be the premature death to those I'll guess.
But that's jmo.

Remember folks...
just because a distributor sells something claiming to fit...
doesn't necessarily mean it fits properly and works equally as well.

Good luck with it OP

if it was me... I'd ask for my money returned.

 

Brand New mine look just like the OP`s new springs accept mine don`t have all the extra leaves .

This is how the rear springs were designed.

Yes it looks so wrong when one is used to the normal look of a positive arch

If it would not be they can only go on one way I thought they were on upside down

I have even been told at inspection stations they were worn out

One must remember most lift springs use a positive arch

Weather they can handle the loads you need to haul you need to figure that out.

 

Well that engineering theory won't be netting any of my monies.

What were these designed for... a lowrider mini ? Lol

 

Lol, I think OME will survive without your money, but with the money from thousands of sets of suspension systems they've sold throughout the world over the last 20+ years. If it 'looks' wrong to you, that's fine, you can have your opinion. I've used a few of their suspension systems and they are top notch, there's a reason they're the biggest provider of offroad suspensions in Australia. No company is perfect, every company has a blem get by somehow, sometime. That's manufacturing. But in OP's case, his doesn't look like a blem and looks just like the other springs I've seen from OME.

 

Here's some leaf spring theory, I copied and pasted, not mine but I share the same belief:


"I'm not quite sure what is so magical about springs cycling from full droop to zero arch with no issues but as soon as they cycle to negative it is suddenly bad? There is nothing different that happens to the spring when it cycles, whether positive, neutral, or negative arch. Explain how a typical 2-2.5" lift spring survives since it is basically completely flat when knew...it has to go into a negative arch with any uptravel of the tire. Don't claim to be a spring expert but I did study this in college (I'm a mechanical engineer) and there is nothing in the text books or equations that changes in the stress or fatigue seen by the spring during a negative arch. The failures of any springs is not because of the cycling into negative arch, but just the simple fact that springs going from positive to negative arch is a very large cycle. Take a piece of wire and bend it back and forth until it breaks......bend it back and forth over a small range and it takes awhile before it breaks, bend it really far both directions and it will fail after only a few times. Same thing is going on with the springs.

Point being, it has nothing to do with the the negative arch itself causing failures but just the total cycle range. If you think you need to limit the springs going into negative arch then you should be concerned about limiting them going into positive arch also."

 

If you ever find yourself in the same spot again try using an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel. You'll buzz through the bolt in a few seconds flat

 

That's what I did Sunday morning. Like cutting thru warm butter. And, it took just a few hours to get the other side done and the whole job completed. Now, just dealing with the negative arc. Still have not heard from Toytec. I have a set of singles I could add to this new set but, not in the mood to take it apart again anytime soon. Hopefully Toytec will get in touch with me soon to discuss options.

 

since you must've engineered these lf springs
what is their cycle - flex range ?

Leaf springs are not generally tempered flat...
they are more commonly tempered with some pos. arch to them.
So they're not at their neutral point when the lf springs are flat - inverted.
And excessive flex can cause even more stress when inverted too far.

Generally lf spring extension is not as harsh as compression.
And the shocks/bump stops mounted become their limitation.
The weight of the axle/tires is not equal to the weight of the vehicle.

The rear spring hangers are not stationary
but rotate to compensate for over-all spring length when compressed.
The spring should not invert so much that it's plane rises excessively above
the leaf spring's Ft or Rr hanger eye.

At least not when static /or unladen.
'cause pushing that inverted arch too far...
may see the lf spring bent /or broken and not returning to it's neutral point.

Think of lf springs akin to a bow...
If you invert a bow too far in the opposite direction
that it was designed to arch...
It could possibly break /or snap during that attempt.
Unstrung... the bow is at it's neutral point.

That being said... the springs neutral flex point is with no weight applied on them.
When a vehicle rests on the spring... it will settle some due to the vehicles static weight.
Meaning the spring is already put under load stress - tension.

A spring's arch determines lift (ride height).
And is tempered to offer that strength with the least amount of stress
to the molecular structure of the spring steel at it's neutral point.

But if the weight of the vehicle rests on the lf springs...
The leaf spring is not at it's neutral point.
There is a certain degree of lf spring flex both up or down
where exceeding that could become an issue.

Because they are generally arch similarily to that of a bow...
I would not recommend inverting that arch too far.

Spring steel does have a molecular neutral point...
and spring steel has it's limitations when it comes to flex.
It's not just a floppy noodle that goes up and down as ya like.
If inverted too far it could snap an individual leaf
or worse.

Since they generally come with some arch tempered to them.
That arch should not be allowed to flex (invert) too much...
or they will wear out quicker or even possibly break when stressed.

Soft ride suspensions generally do not carry a load well
and IMO should only be installed on racing vehicles.
As those likely will get new springs nearly every race entered.

What's the point of owning a truck that cannot carry a load
and is needing replacement lf springs every year ?

btw... my Deaver leaf springs are nearing 14 years old now
carry a hefty load and flex great.
And they weren't built to travel a flat highway.

Bottom line... lf spring flex is bad...
and the consumable life of a lf spring...
is deteriorating from the first day it's installed.

Gravity and vehicle weight is the biggest enemy.
But flex and off road use wears them out quicker.


Do as y'all like...
but I purchased mine for the long haul
not a short term instant gratification.

guess I'm done with it...

good luck

 

Wow, opened a can. All good input guys. Yes taco Dell, I'm in it for the long haul also. I really don't want to rework the work; want to be done correct the first time so I don't have to worry about it and play.
I've been emailing with Toytec, still working out some initial measurements. Justin is asking good questions for clarification.
Day time pix.

 

TacoDell makes some good points.

At this point my lfs are over 6 years old, look like the OPs, are loaded (and overloaded) regularly, ride and lift about the same as when new. So my experience isn't exactly in line with those points, even though I can generally agree with them. I'm probably not going to buy new lfs for this truck, even if I own it another 10 years, but if I were I would be asking more questions next time. It's not a job i'm in a hurry to do again. Either way, compared to the stock 3 leaf springs, we are way ahead.

OP, let us know how this works out.

 

three blades?! you get the special titanium bolts in yours or something?!

angle grinder time?

 

No resolution with Toytec. Or, at least, I'm NOT completely satisfied with reasons and answers. I do want to credit and thank Justin for the conversation and discussion. It was lengthy and overall I think he did well asking the right questions and clarifying some stuff.
For question 1. I have negative arc, why? I'm told that I'm caring TOO much of a load. Well, it's the same load I've been carrying with the stock leafs (with aal) and they were at a slight positive arc. The reason I bought these was so I could put camping stuff in my truck. Expeditions is what I really like to do. New leaf packs are sagging quite a bit.
For question 2. These leafs are about 4"shorter, did I get the ones I ordered? Basically, I got the ones I ordered, they are correct for my truck, they are a few inches shorter.
The way I interpret the conversation is: you have leafs that sag because you can't carry the stuff you typically carry, you're leafs are shorter but that helps with keeping the truck level with the sag because with the shackles only at a 85* angle it gives you more height to compensate for the sag AND, lastly, ".... I don't think anything will happen to the leafs; you could do an aal for this set up if you really wanted to give more support".
First of all, I don't think my photos are the greatest representation of the actual sag but not really feeling the support (pun intended) from Toytec for the product I just purchased. They've been on for 5 days.
Bottom line: this is my DD so I can't just take it apart again and send stuff back. I'll deal with what I have. Can you say FRANKENBUILD? I have a good friend in WA who is a master craftsman with wheelers. I'm talking to him about options and I was thinking of combining my stock pack (for length and initial support) with this pack to create a 2 stage leaf pack.

Lemonaid.

 

I'm running Dakars with 3 AAL's. Daily weight is 600. Loaded 850-1000. The first AAL and the last; they sit flat or neg arch w/ load. Been running this setup for 4 years.

 

the '95.5 -'97 Tacoma leafs springs are shorter then the '98 - '04 Tacoma
Not sure if they're a 4" difference... but it's worthy of further investigation.

or maybe they're made fit the 2wd mini Tacoma ?

something smells more like fish then lemonaide

maybe you should litigate the Lemonaide law !?

ummm... sour grapes !? Lol

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how much additional weight is in/on your truck's bed ?

Can't be much heavier the my shell ladened, full time camp packed bed
not to mention the multiple spare components and all my repair tools.
Of course I can't forget my 295 stuffed in there either.

500lbs is about the max weight the bed could support
but that's only if the frame rails don't bend first !?

refund